B/W Inkjet image quality?

[Ron Marshall]

I have been printing on an Epson 2200 for two years using Cone septone B/W inks, and am very satisfied with the image quality.

I have not tried printing B/W images using Epson inks on either matt or glossy papers.

How good is the B/W output from Epson K3 printers, and is image quality better with matt or glossy papers.

This is obviously a subjective and somewhat ambiguous question, but I think many people here know how a good print should look, and so hopefully can give me their impressions.

I will take a B/W file into Calumet to have them print it for me. That, and the other demo images they probably will have on hand will help, but I would appreciate the opinion of others here that have seen many images.

[jetcode]

I have 2 2200's, one with Septone inks; there is a difference. The B/W inks are better in my opinion because they can be viewed at any angle without artifacts like metamerism.

[Ed Richards]

I use an Epson 3800 in the advanced black and white mode (AWB) or with Imageprint, depending on the paper. Using good mat papers like PhotoRag, or the new fiber gloss papers - Harman Glossy FB or Innova Glossy - the prints are neutral and there are virtually no artifacts. It is not just the inks, the 3800 has an improved dither pattern and I think the AWB does some additional tricks. What I really like is that it is very linear so I do not need to soft-proof as much. I can no longer see any need for 3rd party inks. The only thing that could improve a very few prints would be the HP Z series printer's automatic clear coat for unprinted areas.

[Ted Harris]

Ron,

Ed mentioned the HP Z3100 and I will expand. It sounds like you are considering a new printer and, if so, why just the Epson printers? I am currently testing the Harman FB and the new Ilford Fibre Silk on both the Z3100 ps and the new Canon iPF 6100. Both produce rich, satisfying prints that are full of detail and neutral (when you want neutral). The Canon x000 series did have some bronzing, gloss differential and metamerism issues but the 6100 seems to have largely eliminated them with the new Canon black inset. I just setup the 6100 and have only done one black and white print so no firm conclusions yet. I have also run the Harman FB Gloss on the HP B6180, which is their equivalent machine to the Epson 2400. There was some bronzing clearly evident when the print came out of the printer; however, after drying overnight it disappeared almost totally.

[Ed Richards]

Ted,

For me, the Epson 3800 was the best balance of cost and size. It is hard to beat if you do not need wider prints than 17" and prefer to print on cut sheets.

If want to do rolls and have the room and money, the Z3100 is really exciting - no more profile worries and the gloss coat is very interesting.

[Brian Ellis]

I used several different types of MIS inks for about 5 years, tolerating the hassles resulting from their quality control problems because I didn't want to pay $500+ for a RIP that would have allowed me to use Epson color inks for b&w. Then QTR became available at a $50 cost so I started using it with Epson UC inks in my 2200 and now in my 3800 for b&w printing. That's an excellent combination IMHO and you might want to give it a try with your 2200. You can download QTR for free from www.harrington.com, if you don't like it pay nothing, if you do pay $50 on the honor system.

I don't know whether it and Epson UC inks are the equal of Cone septone inks because I've never used Cone inks. However, MIS inks have an excellent reputation (once you get past the QC issues) and the combination of QTR and Epson UC inks is IMHO at least as good as the MIS inks I used. I print b&w only on matte paper just because I prefer it to glossy so if there are problems with b&w on glossy paper with this combination I wouldn't know about them but there aren't with matte paper (Moab Entrada Natural and Moab Entrada Fine Art in my case).

[Chris Strobel]

I use a 4800 with stock ink and MK, and an old 1160 with MIS Eboni.Paper is Photorag 308 and Epson VFA.The dmax is definately better on the 1160 prints.As far as improved dither algorithm of the 3800, last year when trying to decide between the Epson 4800, 3800, and Canon IPF5000, we ran some b&w 8x10's using abw drivers through the 4800 and 3800 at my local Calumet, and neither I nor the employees could tell any difference with our naked eyes.I didn't take a lupe to them because I never look at my finished prints with one

[Jack Flesher]

Re the dither pattern on the 3800 versus earlier version Epson printers. It is definitely better, but I agree you won't see that difference with your naked eye. However, if you do loupe the print, it is a more notable difference, and in most cases you find even more detail in the 3800 print. Clearly not very relevant to everyday print viewing, but it is pretty cool

[jetcode]

I'm interested in the HPZ3100 as a long term solution to replace the 2200's. One day at a time.

[Ron Marshall]

Ron,

Ed mentioned the HP Z3100 and I will expand. It sounds like you are considering a new printer and, if so, why just the Epson printers? I am currently testing the Harman FB and the new Ilford Fibre Silk on both the Z3100 ps and the new Canon iPF 6100. Both produce rich, satisfying prints that are full of detail and neutral (when you want neutral). The Canon x000 series did have some bronzing, gloss differential and metamerism issues but the 6100 seems to have largely eliminated them with the new Canon black inset. I just setup the 6100 and have only done one black and white print so no firm conclusions yet. I have also run the Harman FB Gloss on the HP B6180, which is their equivalent machine to the Epson 2400. There was some bronzing clearly evident when the print came out of the printer; however, after drying overnight it disappeared almost totally.

Ted, I will be buying a printer soon, probably a 17", but possibly a 24". My understanding is that Canon ink has not passed fade tests, except on Canon media, so if that is the case then my only option in 17" is Epson. In 24" I will only go for Epson if I decide to commit it exclusively to either matt or glossy; I don't want to blow circa $80 for each round trip black swap.

The Z3100 sounds like a good option. I just want to be sure that most of the teething problems have been solved: ie. pizza wheel, red gamut. I know you have not had any problems with your machine. What I really have to do is take a file to Calumet and have it printed on the 3100 to see for myself.