Ilford/Harman Acquires Kentmere

[tim atherton]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Lewin
....they are actually seeing an increase in film sales, rather than the decrease most of us probably expect ....

I don't know why, but there are too many people assuming (without reason) that it is only a matter of time before film based photography is no more. This is often based on some alarmist figures, such as the reduction in sales of new film cameras and something else. They make the assumption that because nobody is buying new film cameras, nobody is using film, which is nonsense. Don't forget, "assume" makes an "ass "out of "u" and "me".

Interesting assumption though not necessarily correct

Another take on it would be that considering Agfa and Forte/Bergger (have I missed any?) are recently gone from the B&W business and Kodak seems to have managed to piss off a lot of film customers, combined with Ilford's concerted push to capture a bigger share of the b&w market, it's not that surprising Ilford's share of the pie has increased?

It could be an overall increase in film sales figures. It could just be Ilford is getting a bigger share of the customers

[David Karp]

A well known manufacturer of LF cameras recently told me that he has information from Kodak, Ilford and Fuji that their sheet film sales have steadily increased for several quarters.

[Gene McCluney]

Interesting assumption though not necessarily correct

Another take on it would be that considering Agfa and Forte/Bergger (have I missed any?) are recently gone from the B&W business
It could be an overall increase in film sales figures. It could just be Ilford is getting a bigger share of the customers

Bergger is not out of the photo paper and film business. They just lost their contract manufacturer. They have now picked Harman to make their products.

[Michael Alpert]

"If you emailed me with this kind of attitude (please don't) I'd ignore you too."

Not answering shows he is not interested in telling this disgruntled customer (former or prospective) that his company can take care of his needs. That is the Kodak attitude. A shame if it is infecting Ilford as well.

Now if they will bring back 8x10 Delta 400 it would be nice. Also let PhotoWarehouse custom cut odd film sizes that some of us use and Ilford doesn't seem to want to supply.

Dakotah,

You and I do not know what was written to Ilford. If someone writes with a simple question, then of course the inquiry should be answered. If the message is inflammatory, then silence may be best. (I apologize for stating the obvious.)

After speaking recently with people at Kodak, it seems that even Kodak is changing to a friendlier culture (at least that is my experience). I am sure that the owners of Ilford are not trying to alienate anyone. The Internet is filled with accounts of idiosyncratic experiences. So wrong impressions proliferate. That was the motivation to my initial response. But this is, at best, a side issue. The important point is that Ilford is committed to making film and silver paper.

Odd sizes are, well, odd. It may be economically impossible for Ilford to do what you want.

[Steve Kefford]

Interesting assumption though not necessarily correct

Sorry, what assumption do you mean? My meaning ws that the reduction of the sales of new film based cameras does not prove the idea that film based photography is about to dissapear. Some people do use this as proof, which is incorrect. However, it could still be the case that it is, but this does not prove it, or even suggest it. This is not an assumption.

...Another take on it would be that considering Agfa and Forte/Bergger (have I missed any?) are recently gone from the B&W business and Kodak seems to have managed to piss off a lot of film customers, combined with Ilford's concerted push to capture a bigger share of the b&w market, it's not that surprising Ilford's share of the pie has increased?

It could be an overall increase in film sales figures. It could just be Ilford is getting a bigger share of the customers

It could be, but considering the small (?) market share that suppliers that have gone out of business, and that the impact of their demise might not yet be fully felt on market share, it might not be.

Besides, if it is just Harman increasing market share due to the demise of these companies, then that indicates that the market size is not diminishing. Companies go out of business for many reasons, not just dissaperance of a market. Unfortunatley, there appears to be a trend whereby profit is not the sucess indicator that it was. Growth appears to be more important.

Anyway, my main point was that the demise of film based photography is not the foregone conclusion that a lot of people are making it out to be.

Steve

[Gene McCluney]

With each closure of a film/paper manufacturer, the remaining manufacturers will experience an upturn in business. If this peaks, levels off, and then slowly declines, then one can assume that film is still sinking, however if the level of sales remains stable after the upturn, then one can assume that film is "holding its own". If sales continue to grow at some length (not tied to a closure), then it is great for all of us.