Selling at craft markets - hard lessons learned.

[r.e.]

Greg, sorry for being a bit slow on the uptake.

...

I mean, here are all these people complaining about the public's reaction to their work, but here is an example from the only actual web site offered in this thread:

www.emersonlithos.com/elders/e1_d.html

And here is what one is told when one clicks on "info" for this photograph, which costs $55:

This quality lithographic print beautifully reproduces the image along with an inspiring quote. The quote and its author are placed below the image and printed on an off-white lustro paper.

All prints are shipped flat in a protective carton.

image size: 8.25" x 8.25"
paper size: 14" x 18"

Image quote:
There are times when we are powerless
to prevent injustice,
but there must never be a time
when we fail to protest.
ELIE WIESEL

[Greg Lockrey]

Greg, sorry for being a bit slow on the uptake.

That's OK, I'm sometimes hard to take...especially towards the end of the week.

[r.e.]

And here is what Bruce said in the post that started this complaint:

I made a deliberate decision to offer a variety of styles and formats and so I had both colour and B&W images (all silver gelatin), traditional landscapes and abstracts, large format, 35mm and Polaroid SX70 images, 8x10 up to 11x14, matted as well as both matted and framed prints, along with (for good measure) greeting cards. I even scrounged up some old concert photos (CSNY, Billy Joel) from the 1970's. In other words, I tried to cover the waterfront in terms of variety. This was done in an effort to appeal to the widest possible audience.

I priced my product as cheaply as I dared: from $4 for a blank greeting card up to $140 for a framed and matted 11X14 B&W print.

Am I the only person who thinks that there might be a simpler explanation for his failure to sell his work than the stupidity of his customers; namely, that he was asking for it?

Of course, then there's the subsequent poster who told Bruce that his real problem is that the people who live in Victoria are a bunch of hics who don't know squat about photography. If they did, no doubt they'd be right lined up to buy Bruce's 1970s Billy Joel greeting cards when he runs out of his 11x14 traditional silver gelatin landscapes.

P.S. for people for whom English is a second language:

"right lined up" is dialect, something that one might say where I come from, but probably not a phrase that one should use if one is writing a language test

[PViapiano]

"I think the question is not how can we sell more, it is how can we change this perception? I leave that to each of you to answer for yourselves."

Maybe we're missing something here, especially when we rationalize our predicament using Aunt May and her new digital camera. Sure, everyone can take a picture these days, but most realize that they're not great photographers. The commoditization of photos has surely influenced the public's perception of a photograph's dollar value unless it's considered as home decor. However, most of us can throw and catch a ball and run a bit with it, yet as a society we reward a few hundred guys with millions of dollars each year for doing the same thing, albeit with arguably more ability. Nonetheless, it's still throwing, catching and running. The big difference between the price we can get for our photos and the price ball players get for their efforts is what our society has been conditioned to prize.

If artists were given the same stature as athletes when young minds are being molded, perhaps it would be they who'd be living like kings instead of the jocks. Every society gets the level of culture it deserves and this is just another example of what we've allowed to develop for ourselves. Perhaps the schools should spend more time on the arts and less in the gym if we're to avoid descending any farther to the coliseum mentality of ancient Rome. Just think where that got them!

Here, here...I totally agree! Great points...

[paulr]

This neck of the woods is too low end for aafnyc, we are more like NW Missiouri that an earlier post mentioned. Around here if you don't have a Kinkaid then you don't have real art.

Sounds like in this case the problem is simple ... trying to sell in the wrong neck of the woods. there's absolutely nothing limiting anyone to selling in the geographical area where they happen to live. I've only made one local sale in the last couple of years (and I live in NYC ... art mecca of the world, but it doesn't seem to be MY mecca).

You have dozens of choices when it comes to type of venue, part of the world, demographic, etc. to show your work. Anyone really serious about trying to sell would do well to get Swanny's boot at mvswanson.com. She's a champ at helping you navigate the various art markets, and to best get your work in front of the right people.

[Greg Lockrey]

Sounds like in this case the problem is simple ... trying to sell in the wrong neck of the woods. there's absolutely nothing limiting anyone to selling in the geographical area where they happen to live. I've only made one local sale in the last couple of years (and I live in NYC ... art mecca of the world, but it doesn't seem to be MY mecca).

You have dozens of choices when it comes to type of venue, part of the world, demographic, etc. to show your work. Anyone really serious about trying to sell would do well to get Swanny's boot at mvswanson.com. She's a champ at helping you navigate the various art markets, and to best get your work in front of the right people.

You just have to know your market and play to it.

[photographs42]

What strikes me about this discussion is the assertion that this is about trying to sell great photography to an ignorant, unappreciative public.

There's always the possibility that what is really happening is a reasonably intelligent public reacting to mediocre photography. .

To be specific...

One of the people who has participated in this thread has some really nice things to say about a fellow photographer whom he says sells very well at what he says are art juried shows, as distinct from what in this discussion seems to be regarded as lower class craft shows.

The person who wrote this post gave the photographer's URL, and so I went to it. What one discovers is that all of his prints are mounted such that there is an inspirational quotation under the photograph.

There are a couple of ways to respond to this. One of those ways is to gag.

...

Myself, I'd be interested in knowing whether anybody has experience with what is known as Affordable Art Shows, an outfit that operates in the UK, Australia and New York.

It is extremely successful, and it is perhaps interesting to note that the organizers accept galleries as exhibitors, not individual artists.

As I understand the subject of this thread, based on Bruce’s original post, it is about the pros and cons of selling photography at arts and craft shows. I have done that, with reasonable success, for 27 years now and I feel that qualifies me to address this topic. I know numerous photographers that do these shows full time and make a very good living at it. One example I gave is emerson because he is one of the better marketers among us. Maybe his work makes you gag. That isn’t the subject here. He probably does around 6 or 7 thousand at an average show and 10 to 12 thousand at a good show. Good or bad, his work sells and because of the way he markets it, it sells very well.

Another photographer who is a superb marketer is Greg Lawler. He happens to publish the Art Fair Source Book. http://www.artfairsourcebook.com/ . If you are serious about making money at art fairs you should take a look If you want to gag on Greg’s work look here http://www.smallplanetphoto.com/ . There is also the Harris list http://www.harrislist.com/ .

Another site you might want to check out is the National Association of Independent Artists http://www.naia-artists.org/ . This is an organization of and for artists who make their living selling at art fairs. Their mission is to improve the quality of shows by working with show directors and promoters but it is also a good source of information about shows.

Finally, I would be remiss if I did not point you in the direction of my humble website http://www.jeromehawkins.com/ . Please don’t publicly gag here as I am very sensitive about my own work.

Jerome

[naturephoto1]

I have known Emerson and participated at shows with him for some years. I have not seen him for some time. His booth at least used to consist of very large square (Hasselblad) images that were printed on Ilfochrome paper. I can not recall if his larger photos had his sayings below them. But, he would ship his larger work as I recall after the show, the smaller work would sell at the shows. As Jerome said he does quite well.

However, many of us would or used to double book themselves in shows for jurying purposes because we would never know if we would jury in all of the time. At least at the better shows the artist is supposed to attend. Emerson did get himself in a bit of trouble a couple of years ago as I recall because he was double booked in 2 shows in Florida (he had a booth at each of the shows and he could only be at one show; an assistant was at the other show with a booth exhibit).

Rich

[Rob Champagne]

takes me more than 50,000 visits to sell a print

what does that work out to in GB of bandwidth per sale. I'd guess 5GB per sale which is a lot of overhead unless you somehow have real cheap bandwidth available.

[r.e.]

Jerome,

Actually, I like a couple of his photographs as photographs. It just seems to me that it's kind of cockeyed for art photographers to complain that the public is unappreciative/ignorant when the only concrete example in this thread, at least to that point, was of a guy whose art comes framed with didactic, inspirational quotations.

I come at this as a buyer. I wouldn't spend ten seconds looking at his stand. It isn't because I'm stupid, it's because for me, and for a lot of other people, the work is being presented in a way that is a complete turnoff.

The same applies to Bruce's approach to marketing. Why would I spend time looking at a photographer's work if the photographer is so desperate to appeal to anyone and everyone that he has thrown in everything including the kitchen sink? If I want that kind of experience, I can have it any day of the week from countless New York street vendors.

I'm just suggesting that the problem may sometimes lie elsewhere than in the stupidity of the public.