Selling at craft markets - hard lessons learned.

[kjsphotography]

At the time when Ansel Adams started his career, the market for photographic prints was almost non-existent.

And this is acceptable? Why do photographer's want to keep on this same tradition. I my life time I want to see traditional photography deemed as art and not just another pretty picture.

[Scott Davis]

I too have done the Art Fair route and did 6 or 7 shows in 2004 and 2005 – Palm Springs, Tempe Festival of the Arts, Scottsdale 5th Avenue and the (Tucson) 4th Avenue Street Fair. I was juried in to the prestigious (and therefore potentially profitable) Park City, Utah show but did not go. I bought top-of-the-line carpeted booth walls, and every giclee (Epson 7600) color print was museum mounted and individually framed. I used a marine battery with an AC converter for the color corrected lights that focused on the two highlighted pieces. I put 11x14 and 8x10 prints in a bin and made tasteful signs that let people know the prices and that larger sizes could be purchased. Print prices ranged from $90 (8x10 matted) to $350 (20x24), and I added another $300 for the frames on larger pieces. If you have not done it, it is a lot of effort to put up and take down a show. If you don’t count labor, I made my costs back in only one show, every other show cost me money, not counting the capitalization costs of the booth walls, top, hangers, bins, etc.

It is wasted energy to blame people for not buying my work. I trust that they know better than I do what is important, and valuable, to them. I decided that I needed to either change my business model or go broke. I do have both a day job that I like and an understanding and supportive wife. I do the best work that I can do and making money at it would allow me to do more of it. I am still working on changing my business model.

I hate to say it, Don, but at those prices, you were giving away cash rebates with every sale you made.

A very interesting point one of my old photo instructors made when discussing price of images was that you should not automatically associate price with size. Yes, certainly, a 30x40 print costs more to make than a 4x6, but at the same time, an Andre Kertesz 2 1/4" contact print is worth a LOT more than most wallpaper-esque C-prints being passed off as "art" in galleries today. And even in the few cases where the wallpaper might cost more, I'd still rather have the Kertesz. Price your work on what YOU perceive the value to be, not some arbitrary size formula.

On a tangentially related note, I had someone contact me, through my website (where I have my prices for my services posted). He wanted to know about how much I would charge for shooting some portraits. I repeated the information to him about my rates (sitting fees start at $300). He was SHOCKED, SHOCKED I TELL YOU!!! , and ran off whimpering with his tail between his legs. Honestly, I don't care, and frankly I'm glad he ran off, because I don't want to deal with people who are going to try and negotiate, or want to act like they can't afford it. But it still astounds me that someone would think that I should effectively give away my work to them. If you want a portrait package for $29.95, go to Sears.

[naturephoto1]

Unfortunately Scott, you do not know what you are talking about for pricing in the Art Fair market. Pricing is an art form unto itself. Most of the public will balk at much higher pricing than that. Your sales will plummet in that market with too high a price. Paying the bills and supporting oneself is of importance. I know, I have participated in this market for 11 years and in many of the higher ranked shows in the Northeast, Mid Atlantic States, and Florida.

I am in the process of finding gallery representation and will have to adjust my pricing since the price is a 50/50 split. Most of the pricing increase will be for unframed work and I will tend to keep my framing charges about what they have been. Since 95% of my larger pieces are sold framed (the public likes my custom frames) my sales will not drop off as much as if I raised the prices too much. I do prepare work in Museum Glass if the buyer is willing or able to afford it; this adds considerably to the cost.

My work for the Galleries will be available in the edition sizes, print only; matted; or framed in my high end version of my custom frames (a unique product made for my work only) and in Museum Glass.

Rich

[QT Luong]

And this is acceptable? Why do photographer's want to keep on this same tradition. I my life time I want to see traditional photography deemed as art and not just another pretty picture.

The current situation is already considerably better than in the 40s. At that time, *nobody* could make a living out of selling prints. Museums had very little interest in contemporary photography. Weston and Adams priced their prints for amounts comparable to today's craft fair fare. And by the way, this favorable evolution is not due to the practice of limiting editions.

[kjsphotography]

The current situation is already considerably better than in the 40s. At that time, *nobody* could make a living out of selling prints. Museums had very little interest in contemporary photography. Weston and Adams priced their prints for amounts comparable to today's craft fair fare. And by the way, this favorable evolution is not due to the practice of limiting editions.

Actually I am now a believer that editions are a hoax and a complete scam . I think you either print as many as you want or make them exclusive ( 1 and only 1 ) .

[C. D. Keth]

Selling photographs always reminds me of Woody Allen's joke about two matrons simultaneously complaining about the terrible food and "such small portions".

"Photographs are cheap because they can be made in large numbers."

"You'll never sell any at that price!"

I wouldn't want to belong to any club that would have me as a member...

[scott_6029]

Well, to my point about low pricing and perceived value, perhaps we are our own worst enemy.... If you price it at $29, or really inexpensively, the public will think, gee this must be easy, push a button, mechanical, get lucky and all.....

[Scott Davis]

Unfortunately Scott, you do not know what you are talking about for pricing in the Art Fair market. Pricing is an art form unto itself. Most of the public will balk at much higher pricing than that. Your sales will plummet in that market with too high a price. Paying the bills and supporting oneself is of importance. I know, I have participated in this market for 11 years and in many of the higher ranked shows in the Northeast, Mid Atlantic States, and Florida.

I am in the process of finding gallery representation and will have to adjust my pricing since the price is a 50/50 split. Most of the pricing increase will be for unframed work and I will tend to keep my framing charges about what they have been. Since 95% of my larger pieces are sold framed (the public likes my custom frames) my sales will not drop off as much as if I raised the prices too much. I do prepare work in Museum Glass if the buyer is willing or able to afford it; this adds considerably to the cost.

My work for the Galleries will be available in the edition sizes, print only; matted; or framed in my high end version of my custom frames (a unique product made for my work only) and in Museum Glass.

Rich

Richard-

I merely stated that at his current prices, he was basically handing cash to each customer who bought something, but he already knows that because he stated he lost money on most of his art fair outings. This is one reason why I DON'T do art fairs. When you factor in the cost of taking your photo, making the print, buying the mats and frames, the booth, the time to pack up your vehicle with your merchandise, the time to get to the art fair, the time to set up the booth, take down the booth, go home, go to the bank, etc etc... $650 for a framed 20x24 probably yields him a gross profit of $400. Sounds pretty good, until you factor in all the other costs. With everything else factored in, he's getting paid less than minimum wage to make and sell that photo. On a smaller photo, where the gross profit is more like $100 (framed!), that comes out to be a negative income per image, because the factors involved in production and delivery to market are identical. The big problem with art fairs is that they turn artwork into a quantifiable commodity, like soybeans, or gemstones. Instead of work being valued on its content, emotional resonance, and artistic merit, it is judged on whether it will look good over the sofa.

[Bill_1856]

According to Clyde Butcher, he and his wife did quite well at these shows. He claimed that the secret to selling color prints was that the buyer wanted "something to match the sofa" rather than the artistic content.<P>After his epiphiny, he burned over $100,000 color prints, went into the Everglades and shot only B&W, and declaired he didn't give #$&#37;$# whether anyone bought one at the shows.<P>Much to his amazement, not only did everything sell, but he made a lot more than he'd ever done before. (He no longer attends these weel-end tent shows -- surprise!)<P>There's no message intended here, just FYI.

[Brian Vuillemenot]

I hate to say it, Don, but at those prices, you were giving away cash rebates with every sale you made.

Sad to say, but actually Don's prices are considerably higher than the matted photos go for at art and craft fairs around here (the SF Bay area). I checked out several last summer and fall, and it seemed that the going price for a matted 8X10 was $35-50 and a matted 11X14 went for only $50-70. And even then it didn't look like many prints were selling. This is in one of the most wealthy parts of the country, with average per capita income well into the six figure range for pretty much every town around here. Many people around here pay more for that every week to support their Starbuck's habit, and will gladly shell out hundreds of dollars to go to a sports game or concert. Many will also pay several hundred dollars for a nice frame, but balk at the idea of paying more than one-tenth of that for something to actually put in the frame.

Although it seems that a few photographers can make a decent living doing the art fair circuit full-time using the Wal-Mart business model of high volume sales at low prices, for most of us LF photographers with a decent day job, doing the art fairs would be a losing proposition.