Illford Photo: Defend The Darkroom

[Clay Turtle]

As a high school photo teacher, I can offer the following: The state of Arizona changed its standards this year, mandating that all photography courses be digital. The amount of funding allocated to my program to make the change: $0.00.

BTW, at the high school level, the classes are classified as vocational, although more than 90% of the students are taking it for their fine arts credit. Pretty much a complete disconnect from reality...

Having people in Arizona involved with education, I am really sorry to hear that news.
Oh, well the old hard sell tactics to sell the "DiGiTAL AGE", promoting what you want to sell via any misconception available. As with all things, both have positive & negative attributes, the real (significant) aspect is to understand these differences to make the best choice to effectly meet the (need) criteria.
WONDER WHAT CRITERIA they have in these actions?

[Noeyedear]

The photography teacher at my high school (BC, Canada) invited the Ilford Canada rep to chat and to see his program (we have a full on darkroom and a great photography program)...anyways, she told us about this initiative by Ilford. We really couldn't see any direct benefits for high school programs...Photo Instructor Newsletter? There are many, many websites already devoted to photography lesson plans for teachers.
What would really help schools is a generous cut in the price of paper and film. We asked for this but the best Ilford would do was offer a student pack of 25 sheets and a roll of HP5.
There was a huge opportunity there for them but they missed the boat.
If this initiative is coming to Canada, I'm sure it'll go below the 49th...unless it's only for Common Wealth nations....

I would think if they could supply materials cheaper they would. I can't think there is much profit in film paper and chemicals these days. The big savings for those that want to set up a darkroom are in the secondhand gear that can be picked up for scrap value, that's why I nave two Durst 5x7 floor standing enlargers now.
My daughters boyfriend just bought a Bronica off the bay, he wants to shoot film.
The kids are interested in film now, in fact some think they discovered it.

Kevin.

[Robert Hughes]

If Ilford or Kodak want to get back in the game with the next generation, they need to take the marketing lead of Apple Computers. Apples are desired by all students because Apple has been working the educational market forever. My daughter & I went to a public high school open house last night, where we were informed that every student would be issued a Mac Book - too bad she'd just bought her own, heh.

[Drew Wiley]

Some of the art programs around here now teach digital only, and some teach both.
The problem with getting employment, however, has more to do with versatility and
people skills than a single line of technique. An assistant of mine who could draw, print
reasonably in the darkroom, understood Photoshop, and was good at schmoozing with
fatcats got a top adv position at 200K a year. His multi-media portfolio unlocked the
doors. By contrast, there are thousands of people in this area who are experts in PS;
students in particular are lucky to get any job right out of school. Proof of flexibility is
a major asset to the corporate hiring mentality. Computer skills alone aren't enough;
and everyone around has a digital camera (except for me - I'm still waiting for a
digital darkcloth!). Failing to offer traditional technique in art school is about as smart, in my opinion, as the high schools cancelling vocational shop programs. I don't
personally care what other people choose; but there's nothing like a shoot-it-then-
print-it regimen to help develop visualization skills which remain valid even as the
technology behind graphics or advertising employment steadily evolves.

[Robert Hughes]

I'm still waiting for a digital darkcloth!

What a great idea! Black with white 1's and 0's on it - of course reversible... LFPHOTO.INFO could market these to all us photo Luddites that are behind the curve!

[Brian Ellis]

I would think if they could supply materials cheaper they would. I can't think there is much profit in film paper and chemicals these days. The big savings for those that want to set up a darkroom are in the secondhand gear that can be picked up for scrap value, that's why I nave two Durst 5x7 floor standing enlargers now.
My daughters boyfriend just bought a Bronica off the bay, he wants to shoot film.
The kids are interested in film now, in fact some think they discovered it.

Kevin.

Actually film and paper are potentially very profitable. There's little money being spent on research, little money on advertising and promotion, they've recouped the cost of factories and equipment long ago, basically other than the cost of labor, repairs, and materials it's all profit. If you look at Kodak's K-1s filed with the SEC you see that Kodak is losing its rear end on digital and making big money in traditional stuff. They don't give a sufficiently detailed statement to know exactly what is included in "traditional" but it clearly includes film and paper, I'm just not sure what else is in there.

[Bruce Watson]

This thread dates back a couple of years now. Has something new happened? Else, why resurrect this thread?

[Sal Santamaura]

This thread dates back a couple of years now. Has something new happened? Else, why resurrect this thread?

Because, if someone wishes to discuss a subject already in the database, it's more appropriate to use an existing thread than start a duplicate one.

http://www.largeformatphotography.in...&postcount=141

[Kirk Gittings]

Some of the art programs around here now teach digital only, and some teach both.
The problem with getting employment, however, has more to do with versatility and
people skills than a single line of technique. An assistant of mine who could draw, print
reasonably in the darkroom, understood Photoshop, and was good at schmoozing with
fatcats got a top adv position at 200K a year. His multi-media portfolio unlocked the
doors. By contrast, there are thousands of people in this area who are experts in PS;
students in particular are lucky to get any job right out of school. Proof of flexibility is
a major asset to the corporate hiring mentality. Computer skills alone aren't enough;
and everyone around has a digital camera (except for me - I'm still waiting for a
digital darkcloth!). Failing to offer traditional technique in art school is about as smart, in my opinion, as the high schools cancelling vocational shop programs. I don't
personally care what other people choose; but there's nothing like a shoot-it-then-
print-it regimen to help develop visualization skills which remain valid even as the
technology behind graphics or advertising employment steadily evolves.

In my somewhat limited experience, its the art programs that are still offering both traditional and digital options whereas the tech schools are just down to digital.

[Drew Wiley]

Kirk - the largest program in our neighboorhood here is CCA in SF, which I have a high
opinon of because the instructors are all people actually succesful in the business
aspect of what they teach. But they teach only digital now, whereas UCB pushes film
quite heavily in the Arts Dept, and even teaches 4x5 use. For some reason I run into
a lot of these students or they get referred to me with questions. It seems that a lot
of them are intested in film on the side and are trying to make up for a shortfall in the
educational system itself. Also there seems to be a strong tradition around here in
which film and darkroom are still identified with fine art - the lasting legacy of AA, the
Westons and the many others who still define the West Coast school of photography,
of which I am perhaps identified too. As I've mentioned before, around here if you're
out on the trail with a view camera and tripod, folks treat you with respect. They don't
walk in front of you without asking. By contrast, if you're out with a Nikon or DLSR
you get sneered at. Probably that's just a local phenomenon - though it applies to the
high Sierra too and some of the other wilderness areas - but I find it informative.