Purchase drum Scanner or pay for scans

[Kirk Gittings]

The only problem with this approach is that the Imacon software refuses to export 16 bit TIFFs so if you want to do further work in PS then you are forced to live with a loss of quality. Quite why they think this is acceptable in a professional product is beyond me.

What model are you using? I have always done this.

[joolsb]

You can export raw scans as 3f format, which is effectively a 16bit TIFF, but you lose any processing you might have done in FlexColor. If you want to export a fully processed image, as far as I can see, you're limited to 8-bit options (either TIFF or JPEG). I would be happy to be corrected if I'm wrong...

[Kirk Gittings]

I'm not sure what to tell you. I only have access to an Imacon when I am in Chicago and I am not there now, but I have been burning 16 bit tiffs for years on them. I have files full of them, hundreds of images in 16 bit tiffs.

How marketable would a scanner be which couldn't export a 16 bit tiff?

Again, what Imacon model are you using?

[jetcode]

> My goal is to become a fine art landscape photographer and sell enough prints to keep me in the canyons with a camera???

In my opinion, your goal is difficult enough to achieve that you shouldn't burden yourself with becoming a good scanner operator, which is a skill (and investment) only peripheral to your goal. These days, on the global market, it is possible to obtain excellent scans at a modest price.

IMO you don't have to be a scan genius to get good results with a high end flatbed, at least in my case. In fact operating a scanner isn't really all that different then operating Photoshop. I can setup a scan in 5-10 minutes and get excellent results. I have a Cezanne Elite and it produces great scans.

[IanMazursky]

Hi Guys,

I know its a bit late to jump in on this thread but I have allot of experience with drum scanners.
From the original question, I think it really depends on the amount of film you need to scan.
Drum scanners are not fast but the quality cant be beat. The Howtek 4500 is a great scanner but limited in the size of the film that can be mounted. A flatbed is easier to use and faster. Wet mounting on both with Kami I find gives the best quality.

Make sure you check the scanner actually functions before you buy it. I have come across many 4500 that have real hardware problems. The guys over at Aztek are great and support the Howtek line. www.aztek.com

You also have to be careful of the mounting and drum cleaning fluids. They can affect you basically like sniffing glue. The more you scan the weirder you act without proper ventilation.

If you do purchase one, make sure it has a mounting station. They are a life saver. Also if you are using Trident, you will need an OS9 mac. Not classic. Trident is made by color byte software but is not really supported anymore if at all. I haven't used silverfast but i understand that it has some problems. IDK what they are but the scan hi end group will be able to answer those questions.

Good luck
Ian

[Kuzano]

I too, am late coming into this discussion. The only reason I am posting is your comment in the original post about the payback on a drum scanner over a few years.

Now, I am sure that you may expect a scanner, even a used one purchased today, to still be operating in a "few years". The issue will be two fold....1) reliably, 2) according to the standards of the technology at that time. Now, if none of your equipment changes over a period of time, and all the equipment is "gently used", perhaps everything will be OK.

However, if you are running a business, any competent accountant will tell you to keep your computer and electronics equipment booked at a two year writeoff, and for best results change the equipment out as soon as is reasonably possible after writeoff.

So, for me, the question revolves around two usages.... limited home or hobby use, or business use.

Scanning and printing services will continue to evolve and it will be difficult from a purely economic point of view to justify almost any expenditure above the hobby level on these two pieces of equipment. Putting a high value on convenience and relatively deep pockets are advised before talking about major purchases in either of these areas. Time, however, is not your friend in this area. I would advise against thinking in terms of years of use of any of this equipment.

[Ted Harris]

Scanning and printing services will continue to evolve and it will be difficult from a purely economic point of view to justify almost any expenditure above the hobby level on these two pieces of equipment. Putting a high value on convenience and relatively deep pockets are advised before talking about major purchases in either of these areas. Time, however, is not your friend in this area. I would advise against thinking in terms of years of use of any of this equipment.

Yes and no. Yes, in tiny increments for consumer scanners. Not so much so for high-end scanners. The technology of the high-end scanners is much more mature and more fully evolved. I can't think of a new model high-end scanner introduced in the past two years (although I could be missing one) and most of the models on the market today have not changed, or only changed very slightly, in past 5 years. We are talking about an industry where the entire worldwide annual sale,s across models and manufacturers, is measured in the hundreds to very low thousands. We are also dealing with machines that have very long life cycles. Many in operation commercially and professionally today have been in place, running daily for ten years.

[Kuzano]

Yes and no. Yes, in tiny increments for consumer scanners. Not so much so for high-end scanners. The technology of the high-end scanners is much more mature and more fully evolved. I can't think of a new model high-end scanner introduced in the past two years (although I could be missing one) and most of the models on the market today have not changed, or only changed very slightly, in past 5 years. We are talking about an industry where the entire worldwide annual sale,s across models and manufacturers, is measured in the hundreds to very low thousands. We are also dealing with machines that have very long life cycles. Many in operation commercially and professionally today have been in place, running daily for ten years.

Thanks, I did not know that about the commercial level equipment. I tend to look at things from a perspective of economics (Too many years in banking). It makes me wonder what the write-off intervals are for the type of scanner equipment you speak of, although that is probably not so pertinent here.

Thanks again.

[IanMazursky]

From my experience, the write off period for a pro-sumer scanner is the year you purchased it in.
A high end flatbed that can run you $2k-30,000 (Used-New prices) is typically a 2 year amortization period.
A drum scanner that can run from $4k-150,000 (Used-New prices) would probably be amortized over a 3-6 year period.
The tax laws have changed so you can write off the whole thing in a year.
I forget the total amount that you are now allowed to write off in a year but its over $100k

In the 80's and 90's the going rate for the Heidelberg Hell scanners where $100,000 and up. I mean up!
Now the newest and best drum scanner is the Aztek Premiere. I think its around $55k Boy how times have changed.
A scanner used to take up a whole room and they weighed over a ton. Now you can fit the best drum scanners on a table top.
Although it does take up the whole table
A drum scanner is basically a microscope focused on a drum spinning at 600-2400 rpm. I am forever amazed that it all works.
The precision of the scanner and the beauty of the files are something to behold.

That said, I have found in my own business. If I cant make enough money in 1 year to offset/justify the cost of the equipment,
its not really a wise investment.
Take the cost of the equipment, troubleshooting time, training time and supplies.
Then calculate how many scans you expect to do in 1 year. Divide the 2 and see how much your cost per scan is.
Check it against your lab and see if you come out ahead.

Just some food for thought.
Even though I have my own drum scanner & drum scanning business. The time it takes to mount, scan and retouch each personal image makes me really question
and thoroughly edit every piece of film I intend to scan.
I usually shoot around 200-300 sheets a year and only scan maybe 100 or so.
For the most part, 80% are keepers but I have to justify the time cost in my head before I mount them.

Sorry for the long rant.

[jetcode]

Having a high end professional flatbed at home is shear joy. No longer do I have to rely on external services or cramming in as many scans per hour to save money. In fact I can take my time setting up a scan exactly as I like it any time day or night. If I shoot B/W I can have a scanned image once the film dries, hours later. The results are pretty amazing.