Shen Hao HZX 4X5-IIA or Ebony RW45E as first 4x5?

[parasko]

Hi all,

I'm thinking of purchasing either the Ebony RW45E or the Shen Hao HZX 4X5-IIA as my first 4x5 (for landscape photography).

The Ebony costs $1950 and the Shen Hao $700. Both cameras seem to have similar features: bellows extensions, variety of movements, weight, dimensions etc.

What extras does the Ebony provide for the additional cost? Better build? Ease of use? Is the Ebony worth the $1250 extra or is this money better invested towards a second lens perhaps?

Secondly, does anyone know if either of these cameras can be used with a 65mm lens using all movements with the standard bellows?

Badger Graphics is offering a Shen Hao intro kit w/ Rodenstock APO-Sironar-N 150mm/5.6. Is this a quality lens and is this lens range popular as a first lens? I was thinking a bit longer, maybe a 210-240mm. Any recommendations for a lens in this range?

One final newbie question...do you always have to buy lens boards separately or do they come with the lens?

Apologies for so many questions.

[Dave_B]

Either camera will work well for you. I have both an Ebony (the SV45TE) and an 8x10 Shen Hao. Both are fine cameras. You will be happy with either. My advice is to start inexpensively and take a lot of pictures. After a few hundred shots and some time spent reading here on this forum, you will have a lot better idea of what YOU what to do with a camera. We all have different tastes and what I want for a B&W walk-around camera in NYC may not be what you want for color studio portraits.
Questions unique to you that will determine the right answers are things like: will you develop your own film, will you shoot color or B&W, do you ever think you will move up to a larger format, do you care about the size and weight of your rig, how much can you afford to spend, what will you photograph, etc.
Any modern lens from a major vendor such as Schneider, Rodenstock, Fuji or Nikon will be more than fine for anything you wish to take a picture of. The slight differences among them are the subject of endless discussions here but the real answer is that they are all essentially perfect objects in terms of their optical performance while taking a picture.
The 150mm length is a pretty standard lens to start with for 4x5. It is the equivalent of a 50mm lens for a 35mm camera-a good place to start with because it roughly approximates what the human eye sees in terms of a field of view. After you learn the ropes with that lens, you can move wider or longer, depending on what shots you wanted to take but couldn't with the one lens you had.
The boards are camera specific. There are roughly half a dozen standard and often used types with a larger number of less popular ones. Boards these days come with holes drilled for copal 0,1 or 3 sized shutters. You need to get a board designed for the camera you have with a hole sized for the lens you have. For example, the Ebony will use a Linhof board and your 150 mm lens will probably have a copal 1 shutter and so that board will have that sized hole in it.
A good place to start learning all about this stuff is a book by Steve Simmons. It is called something like The View Camera. It is a fine place to start. After you have read it, you will have many fewer questions. Also, this forum has an extensive section of FAQ's and background technical articles. These are well worth reading before you spend a lot of money. Finally, don't be afraid to ask questions here. This forum has a tradition of being newbie-friendly.
Good luck,
Dave B.

[Scott Davis]

I can't say for the Ebony, because I know they have different models with specialized bellows, but I know the Shen Hao will not let you focus a 65mm to infinity with any movements, using a flat lensboard, on the standard bellows. Once you get below 75mm, you probably won't use many movements at all anyway, other than the occasional bit of rise, and the occasional bit of swing. If you have a recessed board, you may be able to get very limited movements. The best thing is to get the bag bellows. On the Shen Hao, the bag bellows is a very inexpensive option, and very easy to install/remove.

[Walter Calahan]

I'd spend more money on the glass then the camera, but that said, I have no experience with either of these cameras.

[Jack Flesher]

I think Dave's advice is good -- buy the cheaper camera and spend on good used glass. If you like 4x5 and using the view camera, a little experience using it will tell you what you features you want in a more permanent camera and you won't need to re-buy glass. If you don't like 4x5, then the good glass will sell for what you paid for it. Either way, the Shen will be relatively easy to sell for probably only $100 - $150 less than you paid for it; a relatively cheap long-term rental.

Cheers,

[Brian Ellis]

I had a brief fling with a Shen Hao (seller misrepresented it which was the only reason why the fling was brief) and I've owned an Ebony SVTe and an Ebony SVTi. There were only three things I liked better about the Ebonys than the Shen Hao, the longer bellows (by far the most important to me), the little mirror gizmo on top (I'm not sure that's on the RW), and the fact that axis tilt was easier to use. If my Ebonys had the universal bellows (which I'm not sure the RW has) I would add that to the list. Obviously when talking about whether a price differential is "worth it" you get a totally personal opinion but for me, while the Ebonys were very fine cameras they were way overpriced compared to very similar cameras that cost much less than the two I owned.

I've owned about 20 LF lenses, only two of which were bought new. I'd pass on the Badger package, get the camera then buy a used lens and save about 20% or so on the lens, especially since you seem inclined to a somewhat longer lens anyhow.

Lens boards don't usually come with new lenses, sometimes they do with used lenses.

[Eric James]

The E version of the RW45 (the RW45E) does come with the universal bellows and levels on front and back standards. 65mm lenses can be focused at infinity, in fact Helen Bach has started a thread here detailing her experience with the RW45E and the Rodenstock 55mm APO - Grandagon.

http://www.largeformatphotography.in...ad.php?t=18255

[Petr Hartvich]

Yes, you can focus 65mm lens with flat lensboard to infinity on standard bellows. I made last shot with this combo yesterday. For "extreme" movements is unpractical to have 65mm lens with flat lensboard because work with movements is little bit tight because of bellows but smaller image circle of wide lenses doesn't allow you much movements. Work with recessed lensboard is much comfortable if you use plenty of movements. Personally I use 65mm lens with flat lensboard, for landscape photography this works fine (I used to use this lens with recessed lensboard but I found it unecessary). Hope this helps

[Ted Harris]

Petr, which camera are you referring to?

Brian, yes you can get the RW with the universal bellows that is the way the oneI used for a while was configured.

parasko, why would you gt the RWE and pay extra for the additional weight of the Ebony wood as opposed to the mahogany version? IMO the Ebony is a much solider, more precise camera than the Shen Hao but both get the job done.

I never used a 65mm lens on either camera but I did use a 75mm extensively with a flat board and the universal bellows on the RW and it was a pain. A pain to gt the camera in the "wide lens mode" and movements were limited by bellows compression ... far from an impossible combination but sure took longer and was not as usable as on some other field cameras. Use of a recessed board will solve the problem.

[Former Member 8144]

there is also the newer SHEN HAO TFC45 which is more like the ebony sw45...that may be a good choice also.

marc