Marketing Question: 5x7 Film Holders

[Paul Droluk]

Before we launch into this, we would like to receive an indication of the potential market for brand new 5x7 double sided film holders. These would be in every way indistinguishable from Toyo film holders other than for three aspects...

1. They would carry the Fotoman brand name
2. The dark slide would be stainless steel (like in a Horseman RF holder)
3. The pricing would be more attractive

We have already commenced the tooling for 8x10 and 4x10 film holders, having satisfied ourselves that a viable market exists. Once again, these will be indistinquishable from the Toyo holders other than for the same three aspects. We believe there is a viable market for the 5x7's as well, however before making the considerable investment in tooling, we would like to have some feedback.

Thank you in advance for your input.

[Geary Lyons]

Paul,
There has been strong demand demonstrated in the Toyo 5x7 holder thread. Although I do not want to jeopardize the valiant efforts with Toyo, a firm offer of product, including price and quantity would likely be welcomed.

Cheers,
Geary

[kjsphotography]

11x14 would be nice for sure.

[Ted Harris]

Paul, there is a definite demand. As noted above there is a move afoot to get Toyo to do a run of 5x7 holders. Of course, there has not yet been a discussion of price and I suspect the eventual price quoted by Toyo will not be that attractive.

If you can bring the final retail price of the holders i somewhere in the range of the cost of the Fidelity Holders in their last incarnation ... $55 ... or less you will have a winner.

Folks, if anyone can do it Paul can. I am assuming these holders will have the fit and finish of other Fotoman products which is superb, by far the best I have seen come out of China.

[Christopher Perez]

I agree. Though at this point I have 17 "usable" holders to work with, I would be interested in new equipment at the "right" price. I think Ted suggests a good place to start.

Paul, there is a definite demand...

If you can bring the final retail price of the holders i somewhere in the range of the cost of the Fidelity Holders in their last incarnation ... $55 ... or less you will have a winner...

This may be a hold-over from our thoughts shared on APUG, however, interest remains high from a vocal few (Your Humble Servant included) in Full Plate equipment. Again, for the "right" prices (not AWG, S&S, or Lotus prices), Full Plate equipment might be interesting.

Paul,

... I'd also be interested in 6.5x8.5 holders if they are as I described in the linked thread.

Last thought: I noticed that the Fotoman lens adapters don't focus very closely after moving beyond support for extreme wide angle optics. If nothing else, a Full Plate camera back with film holders could be a way for some of us to adapt this format to existing bellows camera systems (such as Arca Swiss and Sinar).

[Oren Grad]

If nothing else, a Full Plate camera back with film holders could be a way for some of us to adapt this format to existing bellows camera systems (such as Arca Swiss and Sinar).

That's a terrific idea. Here's one more twist - make a prior arrangement with a US-based craftsman who could build reasonably-priced custom wooden adapters to match the back with the 8x10 camera of your choice. The combination of a back plus matched holders plus a ticket to a convenient way of adapting to your camera ought to sell a bunch of whole plate kits.

[Christopher Perez]

The Full Plate field camera I currently own weighs less than one of my 5x7 cameras, and weighs a lot less and is quite a bit smaller than an 8x10 Deardorff.

My current project is to build adapters for 5x7, Half Plate, and 4x5 to fit the Full Plate camera. I am hopeful that the all up weight of this combo system will still be significantly less than the 8x10 'dorff'n'stein and offer the format flexibility that my neurotic ego thinks is required to fully express ones "vision". Pretty pompous, I know. Still, four formats on one small light weight camera body is rather inviting.

If a modern Full Plate back and holders were conveniently available I would no doubt adapt it to the camera(s) I have already on-hand. As you point out, there are a few craftsmen who could help us adapt various formats to existing cameras.

... Here's one more twist - make a prior arrangement with a US-based craftsman who could build reasonably-priced custom wooden adapters to match the back with the 8x10 camera of your choice. The combination of a back plus matched holders plus a ticket to a convenient way of adapting to your camera ought to sell a bunch of whole plate kits.

[Paul Droluk]

Paul, there is a definite demand. As noted above there is a move afoot to get Toyo to do a run of 5x7 holders. Of course, there has not yet been a discussion of price and I suspect the eventual price quoted by Toyo will not be that attractive.

If you can bring the final retail price of the holders i somewhere in the range of the cost of the Fidelity Holders in their last incarnation ... $55 ... or less you will have a winner.

Folks, if anyone can do it Paul can. I am assuming these holders will have the fit and finish of other Fotoman products which is superb, by far the best I have seen come out of China.

Hi Ted, thanks for the compliment... we're trying hard. In fact the pricing target you mentioned ($55) is around what we have in mind. I am aware of the move to get Toyo themselves to make these, but I too suspect that the pricing will not be very favorable. I compliment Gary for all the work he did in attempting to put the Toyo deal together, but it's been a really long time without Toyo responding. I just have to wonder if Toyo's marketing relationship with MAC is perhaps getting in the way.

[Colin Myers]

Hello Paul,
One aspect of the proposed holder which has not been touched on, is weight.
You are specifying a s/s sheath or dark slide, surely this will incur a heavy weight penalty over plastic? Or if you reduce the thickness, you may reduce the weight. Can you maintain a suitable fine tolerance on the moulded grooves, for the thinner sheath to slide in?
Just curious
Colin Myers

[Paul Droluk]

Hello Paul,
One aspect of the proposed holder which has not been touched on, is weight.
You are specifying a s/s sheath or dark slide, surely this will incur a heavy weight penalty over plastic? Or if you reduce the thickness, you may reduce the weight. Can you maintain a suitable fine tolerance on the moulded grooves, for the thinner sheath to slide in?
Just curious
Colin Myers

Colin,

the thickness of the SS darkslide will be considerably thinner than the plastic ones usually used. We have incorporated the appropriate tolerances, which our mold maker has confirmed are do-able. Fortunately for those interested in the 5x7 or WP holders, we will have already proved this out in advance with our 4x10 film holders. Net, net, our film holder will weigh in at very slightly more than the comperable Toyo, though the benefits (durability, IR proof) should be worth the slight weight penalty.