The New HP B9180 13x19 printer WOW WOW

[Ted Harris]

I try vry hard not to be overly enthusiastic about new products I am evaluating, certainly not before I have put them through a full shakedown cruise but in the case of the HP B9180 printer I am going to throw caution to the winds. This printer is just a solid joy to work with and, so far, produces outstanding results. This is HP's entry into the photo printer market to challenge the Epson 2400 and from waht I have seen so far it is a clear winner.

I first used the printer at our last Scanning Workshop at Midwest a few weeks ago. Jim Andracki set the printer up with no complications and the very first prints we made with no attempts at any heroic adjustments were excellent. During the workshop we tested the printer head-to-head against an Epson 3800 printing two black and white and one color image on both printers ... same file, same size, same paper, etc. Looking at the prints side-by-side there was absolutely no visable difference. Looking at them through an 8x loupe you could see slight subtle differences. Just differences, nothing that said this one is beetter than than just tiny differences.

Since then I have been running a lot of paper through the printer,mostly 8x10's until recently to check how the results looked versus proof prints I have on file for prints that were eventually printed 11x14 or larger on my Epson 4800 or on an Iris printer. Again, excellent, solid images. Black & White prints show solid deep deep blacks and images hold detail well into the darker shadows. I have been using Ilford Pearl, Hanemuhle Fine Art Pearl, Hanemuhle Photo Rag Smooth and HP's own Soft Glossy (manufactured for them by Hanemuhle I am told). I will also be testing the printer with some Red River, Crane and Moab papers over the next month. The printer has an 8 ink pigmet ink set with no changes from matte to gloss required. Also, different from Epson, the print heads (one for each two colors) are user replacable. Finally the inks are slightly less expensive than Epson inks

My initial impressions are that this printer is built like a tank, far more solid and precise than I have come to expect from consumer printers. My only complaint so far and it is a minor one is that some heavier papers that use the single sheet 'specialty tray' have to be loaded from the back of the printer and pulled through. No big thing, but not documented by HP.

HP has said they are going after Epson head on and if this printer is an example of what the larger Z3100 wide format professional printers can do then they are doing it right. Saving the best for last, the B9180 sells for as low as $505 (Amazon) or $544 from B&H (and it was 506 from them last week so who knows what's next). Midwest will have them in stock next week. This is the same price as the Epson R1800 and some 230 to 270 less than the 2400, WOW. At a price like this it is a real Epson killer. Given that, in our quick tests, it preformed on a par with and is built better than the 3800 I'd say it is competes well with this machineas well ... as long as you can live with the smaller output (no, it doesn't have a roll feeder either).

I'll keep posting bits and pieces as I continue to work with the printer and the full review will be in the May-June issue of View Camera. I also have a Canon 5000 in the studio now and will say something about it in the next few weeks. An HP Z3100 will be arriving for a 4 month shake down cruise in 3 weeks or so and then I can look at the Canon v. the HP v. the Epson wide formats.

For the moment I strongly recommend that anyone thinking of purchasing a 2400 or an 1800 or a 3800 (unless they need the size) think hard about this new HP printer.

[erie patsellis]

Ted, I had the same reaction with the first print out of my 8750 almost 4 months ago, and it hasn't faded yet, even after >300 prints. I'm a wet darkroom kinda guy, but living in an apartment makes setting up my 8x10 enlarger just not possible, at least with digital output, I can still shoot LF and output fine art quality prints.


erie

[sanking]

Ted,

I think some people would be interested to know if this printer would work for prnting digital negatives for alternative processes. The dye ink sets of previous HP and Canon printers did not produce enough UV blocking to be useful for digital negatives. It would be intersting to know how the pigment ink printers perform in this regard. Would you be intersted in working with me to test this?

Sandy

[Eric Biggerstaff]

Great to know and thanks Ted, I look forward to reading the complete review in View Camera.

Eric

[Matt Miller]

I don't have printer yet, but am in the market. How does the HP ink cost compare to Epson's?

[David Karp]

. . . Finally the inks are slightly less expensive than Epson inks . . .

[Brian Ellis]

Thanks for the mini-review Ted. It's good to see some competition for Epson, should be good for all of us. Personally, however, I plan to stick with Epson, at least until ther are some reports from long-term users. My first digital products were both HP, a printer and a 35mm film scanner. Both malfunctioned after a couple years of light use and the advice I got from HP tech support was "throw 'em away, it's cheaper to buy new ones." OTOH, when we moved from Florida to Oregon the movers threw my Epson 2200 in a box upside down with the cartidges still in it. It stayed that way for a couple months in my garage during a Central Oregon winter. When I was finally able to set up my computer system I opened the box, plugged in the printer, and it worked flawlessly as it does to this day. So my next printer will be a 3800, maybe if HP is still around and making excellent printers for photographers four or five years from now I'll look at one as a replacement for the 3800.

[Bruce Watson]

The thing is, a higher quality output would get me to take notice. Sharper, wider gamut, better shadow detail, more versitile with use of substrates, faster, ... that kind of thing.

But you don't seem to be saying that it makes a better print. Just that the printer is cheaper. This doesn't make me go "WOW WOW" unfortunately. One of the worst and most overused phrasing is marketing is "just as good as" if you know what I mean.

That said, I look forward to a complete review. Maybe better prints or better printing will be in there somewhere.

[devalier]

The thing is, a higher quality output would get me to take notice. Sharper, wider gamut, better shadow detail, more versitile with use of substrates, faster, ... that kind of thing.

But you don't seem to be saying that it makes a better print. Just that the printer is cheaper. This doesn't make me go "WOW WOW" unfortunately. One of the worst and most overused phrasing is marketing is "just as good as" if you know what I mean.

That said, I look forward to a complete review. Maybe better prints or better printing will be in there somewhere.

Are we talking about the same HP9180? It seems you are talking about a recent release, but I bought mine a year ago in Sweden. Is it only now available in the U.S. market? The hp.com site lists my same model, so I can describe a year's use. I print only 5-10 prints per week, both in A3 and A4 format.

Bruce, I purchased the printer after reading an article by Joel Meyerowitz in a 2006 American Photo magazine. He was reprinting his negatives with a Design Jet 130 and although he didn't use WOW WOW he did describe the better color range of the DJ130 with Vivera pigment inks on HP's Advanced Photo Paper. In his humble opinion the new HP printers were superior to any he had used in the past and superior to traditional chemical color printing. If it is good enough for Joel, I figured it was good enough for me, especially for the price (WOW WOW). After reading reviews and seeing samples of the DJ130 and the B9180, I concluded the B9180 was as good if not better and I have been a happy user.

Like:
1. absolute color consistency (after a few mishaps). I now use only Advanced Photo Paper (not the HP glossy which HP claims is a better paper) and Hannemuhle Smooth Fine Art for B&W. Other papers will not give the same performance (an advantage of the Epsons)
2. it is cheap, all things considered
3. built in color monitor
4. Excellent software/drivers

Dislike:
1. the ink is expensive. Each print, considering paper + ink has averaged about 4 dollars US per A3 print over the last year.
2. if I don't use it for about a week, I will get banding or incorrect color handling. A simple nozzle cleaning fixes it, but it is annoying to waste the expensive pigment ink.
3. it is big, heavy and rattles my sturdy table when printing
4. In Europe it is very very difficult to get the HP38 ink. Fortunately, I travel, and when I find it I stock up on 2 full sets. Ordering inks from my local stockist is always a special order and takes about 30 days.

Learnings:
1. I let Photoshop handle the color (perceptual) and turn off all printer and windows color calibration. I feel this is a must.
2. I do not let the printer start printing until my PC has spooled the entire print job. There is an option to turn this off. It freezes the PC for a minute or two, but if you don't do this you will often get banding, sufficient to ruin the print (My 30USD print then costs me $10, a serious hit to profit)

The above sounds more negative than positive, but I am just highlighting the negatives for anyone hesitating to buy. I absolutely love this printer and would recommend it for anyone printing in both color and black and white. For color (comparing to a friend's prints on his R2400) I absolutely prefer the detail, tonal range and consistency of the HP9180. However, I have to admit my friend's Epson 2400 prints B&W which are more... "print like". My blacks are as detailed and "black" as his, my highlights are smooth and crisp, and I have no color casts, but his Epson seems to handle overall contrast in B&W with better smoothness. Sorry I can't describe it technically and I don't have one of his prints in front of me, but his B&W on the Epson is superior (although a very close call for anyone interested in printing frequently in color)

-- Just my two cents.

[Bill_1856]

Ted, as I recall, the first comment you made to me at the Fall Workshop critique was "get rid of that #$%$# HP printer and get an Epson." My, how times change.