Discontinuance of Arca-Swiss Discovery

[r.e.]

Looking forward, the question is how long Arca-Swiss will continue to support 171mm. Archivue says, in an earlier post, that the company has stopped producing the 171mm frame. If true, that is major news. Is it just idle, alarmist, misinformed speculation on his part, or is it true? If it is true, why isn't Arca Swiss revealing this, and how come Archivue knows this and the rest of us don't? Also, if it is true, one must wonder what the future is for 171mm support generally.

It is one thing for Arca-Swiss to be non-communicative, it is another to fail to address a basic question: how long can people who own Arca-Swiss cameras, to a 171mm specification, expect to be able to buy components for that standard? How come the discontinuance of the Discovery, which uses the 171mm standard, was not even accompanied by a press release? Volunteering the answer to the question of how long there will be support for 171mm would seem to be the minimum that what one might expect in terms of transparency, also known as respect for customers, whether from Besancon or Chicago.

[Frank Petronio]

They weren't too great about supporting their old line once they went to the F-Line design back in the 80s...

[Kerry L. Thalmann]

It is one thing for Arca-Swiss to be non-communicative, it is another to fail to address a basic question: how long can people who own Arca-Swiss cameras, to a 171mm specification, expect to be able to buy components for that standard?

Have you tried asking them this simple question directly? I think you would be much more likely to get an answer to a direct email or a phone call than from an anonymous posting in a discusion group which they may not ever see.

They don't usually frequent the online forums, but whenever I have asked a question directly I've always received a prompt, thorough and friendly response. I'd recommend you try that route before you label them as "non-communicative".

Kerry

[r.e.]

Mr. Thalmann,

I have met Mr. Vogt and I have dealt with Ms. Graham-Henry. They are both very nice to talk to. But I think that it is obvious that Arca-Swiss is non-communicative and that it does not volunteer information. I deal with two other small companies that high-end gear, one in Grenoble that makes motion picture cameras and one in Wisconsin that makes sound recorders, and the difference in attitude is remarkable.

Maybe this forum, as a forum (i.e, in the name of the owner and membership), could do a lot of people a favour by sending a letter to M. Vogt and Ms. Graham-Henry asking for an answer to this question.

[Kerry L. Thalmann]

They weren't too great about supporting their old line once they went to the F-Line design back in the 80s...

Frank,

Do you mean "supporting" or "promoting"? There is a difference. I know you like to bash ARCA-SWISS for their lack of a web presence (yes, they are one of the few holdouts in that respect), but have you really had problems getting support for ARCA-SWISS products you own?

I've personally never had any problems getting parts or repairs for my ARCA-SWISS products. Bob Watkins at Precision Camera Works, their authorized US repair center, has always been a pleasure to deal with. Have you had a problem obtaining parts or repair services from Precision Camera Works?

Kerry

[Kerry L. Thalmann]

Maybe this forum, as a forum (i.e, in the name of the owner and membership), could do a lot of people a favour by sending a letter to M. Vogt and Ms. Graham-Henry asking for an answer to this question.

Why should this forum send them a letter? You're the one with the question. Why don't you send them an email or call them on the phone. I'm sure they'd be happy to answer your question, but you have to ask it first.

Kerry

[r.e.]

Mr. Thalmann,

Actually, I think that anyone who owns a 171mm Arca-Swiss has this question. The whole point is that the company should make a general statement about this to Arca-Swiss owners, not that individual owners should be sending e-mails to Besancon. I mean, why wouldn't Mr. Vogt tell Arca-Swiss owners, as a group, where they stand?

By the way, I share your regard for Precision Camera Works. They fixed my Arca-Swiss B-1 ballhead, which was defective. And I thank Ms. Graham-Henry for telling me, at the New York Photo Show, that my ballhead might be defective despite having been bought well after the problem with the B-1s was supposed to be resolved. I think that it is great that they fixed it. On the other hand, I paid US$35 to send it to them so that they could fix a defect in the product that they sold me after they claimed that the defect was resolved. Anyway, the ballhead now works the way that it is supposed to. But you know, I learned something from that experience. If you don't ask, they don't volunteer.

Maybe there is something to be said for asking as a group. And what, exactly, is the downside? Is there a reason why Arca-Swiss owners, and for that matter the large format community generally, wouldn't ask Arca-Swiss what its intentions are about support for the 171mm standard?

As for your statement that my post is anonymous, what are you talking about? Apart from the fact that that statment has nothing to do with the substance of what I am saying, the owners of this site have my full name and a completely legitimate e-mail address. If I choose not to use my full name on the internet, that is my business, and irrelevant to this discussion. Last week, my closest friend had his Chase Manhattan account raided for $2000 due to identity theft. And it would have been a lot worse had he not caught on to what was happening, by accident, two days after it started ($1,000 each day for two days). I'm not big on revealing a whole lot of personal information on the internet. If you want to use that to attack my credibility, that is your business, but frankly not impressive. What's really ironic about your attack is that I spent part of tonight buying a fairly expensive lens from a long-standing member of this forum, who apparently isn't having a lot of trouble figuring out who I am. Really, the better question is, why would you, in the context of this discussion, go off, with all due respect, on a tangent that is both irrelevant and completely out of sync with what a lot of completely legitimate people think is going on with the relationship between the internet, privacy and personal financial security? I'd like you to respond to that question, or else have the class to apologize.

[BradS]

Why should this forum send them a letter? You're the one with the question. Why don't you send them an email or call them on the phone. I'm sure they'd be happy to answer your question, but you have to ask it first.

Kerry

Kerry,
I'm sure it never occured to you but...I mean...after all you *ARE* Kerry Thalmann.

Again, I'm sure you don't think so, but you are a minor celebrity in the LF community. I'm not saying that you get special treatment from LF camera manufacturers but....maybe? You think? I'm sure that Arca-Swiss are a first class company to deal with but, please...check your assumptions.

[Frank Petronio]

Kerry,
Point taken, and yes, what happened 25 years ago under different managers is quite another situation. I wasn't even a photographer when they switched over to the F-line design.

However, three local Rochester professional photographers I worked with, and one whom I bought an older Arca from, all told me the same story of how, quite suddenly, Arca stopped making parts for their older cameras once the new designs were launched. That's when people switched over to Sinars...

So I offer that tale as a cautionary warning with regards to expecting to find a 171mm part in a couple of years. Or any odd part from any niche manufacturer that makes large format cameras. Luckily there is always eBay, which beats the heck out of waiting for Shutterbug to arrive!

I don't use Arca any longer so my complaints about their lack of having a website don't count for any more worth than the pixels on this webpage ;-0 I just find it incredible that they don't but apparently people are still happy to spend money with them because their products are so good.

[Kerry L. Thalmann]

Actually, I think that anyone who owns a 171mm Arca-Swiss has this question.

I don't. I've got all the 171mm-specific ARCA-SWISS accessories I'll ever need - probably more than I need. The only things 171mm-specific are format frames, the bellows frames and the lens boards and adapters. Believe me, I personally have more of all than I'll ever need. If I ever ruin a bellows (and run out of spares), I can always have a new bellows mounted to my old 171mm frames. I'm not trying to boast or brag here, just pointing out that I'll be able to happily keep taking pictures or the rest of my life with my ARCA-SWISS cameras whether or not they continue to produce 171mm specific parts and accessories. It's this very reason that I've avoided "upgrading" to the new 141mm format frames. I'm just too heavily invested in the older 171mm compatible system. Obviosuly, not eveyone is as heavily invested in the 171mm ARCA-SWISS system - which is exactly hy YOU should aks them YOIR question directly. You're the only one who has asked this specific quesion here in this forum. Why not try asking the people who can actually answer it?

The whole point is that the company should make a general statement about this to Arca-Swiss owners, not that individual owners should be sending e-mails to Besancon. I mean, why wouldn't Mr. Vogt tell Arca-Swiss owners, as a group, where they stand?

Pretty hard to do if they don't even know the question exists. That's why I suggested you contact them directly. You're the one who posed the original question. Nobody here has been able to answer it for you. So, I merely suggested you directly contact the people best equipped to give you an accurate answer. For some reason, you seem reluctant to contact the people most likely to be of assistance. I'm not sure why you don't want to contact them directly, but I've always found it's the most expedient way to get a complete, accurate answer (whether you're dealing with ARCA-SWISS, or any other company).

But you know, I learned something from that experience. If you don't ask, they don't volunteer.

Then why don't you ask them? Seriously, I'm not trying to be argumentative, you just seem determined to avoid permitting them from giving you an answer to your question.

Maybe there is something to be said for asking as a group. And what, exactly, is the downside? Is there a reason why Arca-Swiss owners, and for that matter the large format community generally, wouldn't ask Arca-Swiss what its intentions are about support for the 171mm standard?

We're not a homogenous group. We are a group of diverse individuals. As far as I know, this group collectively has never contacted ANY manufacturer with a question regarding their plans or their equipment. Most people post a question here and if no one provides a satisfactory answer, pointers are usually given to someone who can answer the question directly. My suggestion that you contact the manufacture to get the information you seek is not unique. It happens on a regular basis and isn't specific to you or ARCA-SWISS. What is unique is your stance that the group as a whole should be reponsible or getting an answer to your specific question.

As for your statement that my post is anonymous, what are you talking about? Apart from the fact that that statment has nothing to do with the substance of what I am saying, the owners of this site have my full name and a completely legitimate e-mail address. If I choose not to use my full name on the internet, that is my business, and irrelevant to this discussion. Last week, my closest friend had his Chase Manhattan account raided for $2000 due to identity theft. I'm not big on revealing a whole lot of personal information on the internet. If you want to use that to attack my credibility, that is your business, but frankly not impressive. What's really ironic about your attack is that I spent part of tonight buying a fairly expensive lens from a long-standing member of this forum, who apparently isn't having a lot of trouble figuring out who I am. Really, the better question is, why would you, in the context of this discussion, go off, with all due respect, on a tangent that is both irrelevant and completely out of sync with what a lot of completely legitimate people think is going on with the relationship between the internet, privacy and personal financial security?

Your anononimity is none of my business. And my response wan't an "attack". Sorry if it seemed that way. I was honestly trying to help you get an answer to your question by suggesting you contact the manufacturer directly. Perhaps I should have phrased my response differently. You're new here, at least posting under this ID. The only posts you've made to date in this forum, under this user ID are in this thread. I know absolutely nothing about you other than what you've posted in this thread. From what I see in this thread, it seems like you have a personal ax to grind with ARCA-SWISS, but rather than do it yourself you want the entire group to take up your cause. You seem more intent on making this a public issue than actually getting your question answered. Are those assumptions on my part? You bet, but since I know nothing else about you, those assumptions are based on the only thing I do know about you - your behaviour in this thread.

On the other hand, if you'd had actually tried to contact ARCA-SWISS directly to get an answer to your question and didn't receive a response, I'd be more sympathtic to your situtation. However, when you won't even go to the trouble to try contacting the manufacturer directly, I have a hard time understanding why you expect this group collectively to do so on your behalf.

Sorry if that seems harsh and I certainly don't mean to make you feel unwelcome here. The more the merrier. I usually try to be as helpful as I can, but I do expect, at some point, people will make a minimal effort to help themselves, too.

Kerry