Ink cost justification

[Michael T. Murphy]

Bert, I apologize for the long delay! I am on vacation in Orlando with my 9 year old son. Sea World today.

Hello Michael,
Cone has answered my enquiry that they do not have Pro 5500 carts, that I could try a CIS, and that they sell bottled inks.

Which other printers use the same carts as the 5500? I see that MIS has refillable carts for the 5000 - will those work? Looks like only 4 colors though. About $10 each:

Empty (no chip) Cartridges For Epson Stylus Pro 5000

http://www.inksupply.com/wideformat.cfm

Select the 5000 from the list. I don't see a listing for the 5500.

if I could refill my used 5500 cartridges or are these impossible to refill.

How large are the 5500 carts? 220 ml?

If so, those should be easy to refill. You use a 60 ml syringe with an adapter to fill them through the port where the ink usually comes out. Post more info about the carts.

So could you kindly fill me in - what is "a lot of crap, like G&G"

G&G is a brand name. They sell a lot of ink on Ebay. According to some tests, their longevity is a matter of months (versus 40+ years for Epson Durabrite.)

http://www.wilhelm-research.com/epso...2007_09_11.pdf


OK, let's start from the beginning. You have a 5500. What do you want to do with it? Make prints for resale as fine art, where longevity is important? Make proofs so that you can judge image quality and then scrap them? Somewhee in between?

There are a lot of 3rd party ink manufacturers. Some are really bad; some are pretty good. I went to dye inks for my proofing because the gamut was better than most pigment, there wsa only 1 black for photo and matte, and they are cheap - only $27 for a liter.

Feel free to e-mail if you like. I will check in, lets see what you want to do with these things. Do you have a device to create your own ICC profiles?

[Helen Bach]

Like any third party ink system, Ink Republic gets mixed reviews. I'd definitely wait until some 3800 users report on the new system.

I've used a few CIS systems with 2200 and R2400 printers, for Septone, Cone, Epson OEM and my own ink sets, and the Ink Republic i-Ink has been the best and most reliable, though it looks a bit weird. I'm looking forward to the 3800 system so that I can convert a 3800 to a Piezography glossy hybrid I've been working on with an R2400, then maybe use my colour 3800 with 4800 inks. I wish that Bowhaus would release a version of IJC/OPM for the 3800, but development seems to have stopped on IJC/OPM. Maybe I'll switch to StudioPrint.

Best,
Helen

PS In case anyone is wondering why I don't just get 4000-series or bigger printers, I have a severe space problem and it's easier for me to fit four or five small printers here and there rather than one or two large printers.

[jetcode]

Joe, I don't know anything about Niagra og Septone and how this works, so I wouod be grateful if you could describe how you use them and advantages apart from economy. Do you have the Epson Stylus Pro 5500?
Regards
Bert

Bert I have a 2200, the system comes with pre-filled color coded cartridges. The installation is fairly easy but the printer must be maintained or the heads will clog.

The main advantage is pure B/W tone from cold to warm. Prints look spectacular in my eye.

[Helen Bach]

I used to use Septone inks in a Niagara CIS with the original R9 software, then later with IJC/OPM, which gives more control and it frees you from the limitation of relying on R9 profiles. It's a very good system, as jetcode says, though not so good for glossy paper unless the prints are coated, when a D-Max of around 2.6 is possible. It has one common matte black and three lighter shades in warm and three lighter shades in cool/neutral, so there are seven inks. With the original R9 software you can select a mix of inks, and have different warm/neutral balances at different densities. Very handy, very well controlled. You could probably do the same with PiezoTone inks, which have roughly similar densities as the Septones, and the R9 software. You can do it with PiezoTones and IJC/OPM.

There was a lot of dye in the original Septone inks and they had low fade resistance, but the story is that they were reformulated after being abandoned by Cone. Because I like glossy prints I switched my Septone 2200 to an inkset based on K3 inks from a 4800, with one channel for Krystal Topkote.

Best,
Helen

[Bert Hillebrand]

Michael,Thank you for the long reply.The 5500 carts are different from the 5000 s; I can't find them listed . They hold 110ml. 6 colors in 4 carts: A.black, B.yellow, C.magenta+light magenta, D. cyan+light cyan, Perhaps these double carts create a problem. I want to make fine art prints. Epson's 5500 ink is pigmented and claims 200 years lightfastness! I'm ignorant as to ICC profiles. The 5500 came out in 2001 and cost approx 4K; it is a good printer.
Regards,
Bert

[Bert Hillebrand]

Joe,
Thank you for your reply. I just cannot trace any 5500 carts, so am stumped. If I want to use my old and empty carts, would they require some sort of cleaning first? Does the clogging you mentioned arise more rapidly than with Epson's inks?
Regards,
Bert

[Peter De Smidt]

I've used MIS refillable cartridges on various Epsons. The ink was fine. The refillable cartridges, though, were quite dodgy, and I'd regularly have issues with clogged nozzles. What was really annoying was I'd get a good print, and then boom a bad one, even though it was printed less than a minute after the good one. I decided that the lost time and money made the MIS refillable cartridges expensive compared to Epson ink.

After spending awhile using epson ink, though, I simply couldn't stand the price. So I bought a CIS for my R2400 from InkRepublic, and I use MIS K4 color inks, using the Epson driver to print through a custom profile (Print Fix Pro) with extended grays.

I have run into a few issues. Mainly, the plastic bridge the InkRepublic used held the ink tubes in a poor position on my R2400. This lead to some head strikes on Ilford Gold Silk Fiber paper, a very nice paper, btw. So I had to forcibly remove the bracket and move it. So far, so good.

On a customer service note, InkRepublic was very responsive when I told them I was having issues.

[butterfly]

Totally agree about the costs. If it all went on prints (I have an HP B9180), it wouldn't be so bad. Half of what I use goes on cleaning and calibration. It's crap. I've shut it down and given up. I can't justify it, neither can Epson/HP. The are simply thieves in my opinion.