Anyone Still Printing Chromes?

[Sal Santamaura]

...The ciba...has very good dark storage capabilities for critical work that needs to last.

Aesthetic questions aside, I've always wondered why good dark storage capabilities, when combined with mediocre display life*, is considered much of a benefit for Cibachrome/Ilfochrome. Why bother with a print if the aim is to only peek once in a while? Viewing the original transparency on a light box would be more satisfying anyway.

Except for snapshots, the only color hanging in my home is a 20x24 pigment-based Evercolor that Bill Nordstrom printed twelve years ago. The photographer was making dye transfers at that time, and it required twisting his arm to have him try this new process. He was most pleased with the results, and went on to have other images Evercolor printed as well.

I don't know why Bill discontinued Evercolor; he ended it long before Agfa (which sourced the pigment sheets) folded. For a while the other pigment sheet producer -- UltraStable -- supplied materials and there was at least one lab (Ataraxia Studios) that would make prints using them.

I suspect that the cost of separations, pigment sheets and labor, along with an alleged lack of repeatability, has all but killed the process. Currently Ataraxia is a sales outlet for certain photographers, apparently making pigment prints and marketing them. Ultrastable seems offer the public only pigment-based fluids for inkjet printers.

*See Table 3.2 here: http://www.wilhelm-research.com/pdf/..._HiRes_v1a.pdf

[naturephoto1]

Hi Sal,

What happened with EverColor is the following (and Bill has been my printer for 12 years):

Bill closed down operations in California giving the option of some of his staff to go with him. He moved the equipment and combined this and another lab in Worchester, Massachusettes. Bill had been founder of EverColor and President. Bill and Mark Doyle did most of the digital darkroom work. EverColor had problems where they were unable to get the pigment processed prints to consistantly be printed and run through the machines properly consistanly. They had also applied the same 4 color printing method to the Fuji dye photo paper generation prior to Crystal Archive.

In this time period, Bill was no longer really running EverColor, he was basically 2nd Banana. Bill made arrangements for the original LightJet that EverColor got and the 4 color printing method for dye printing was discontinued. Eventually, after so many attempts at solving the problems with the pigment process EverColor kept raising the pricing.

Bill decided to leave EverColor and set up Laser Light Photographics in Shrewsbury, MA and continued to use the EverColor LightJet printer. I was Bill's 7th customer under the new banner. My customer number with time became 007 (we have a going joke that I have a license to shoot). Eventually, EverColor gave up on the pigment process entirely because they were unable to get all of the problems with the process solved.

EverColor finally went bankrupt and after losing $5,000,000 in 5 years and the investors pulled the plug.

Bill moved his business back to California in Aptos while Mark Doyle (who Bill invited to join him in California) decided to stay and set up Autumn Color in the same location that EverColor had been in Worchester, MA. I believe, as things were disolved, Mark gave us the opportunity to buy all of the pigment separations or they would be destroyed. With no way of preparing these images most if not all of the separations were destroyed.

Within the last year or so Bill has moved the Lab and the Chromira machine that he had set up in his Garage into a much larger facility.

Rich

[CP Goerz]

Yeah, a sorry tale. I tried calling Fuji today aboaut their reversal paper and the guy who answered didn't know if the company ever made it...sigh. I did look into West Coast but still feel like I am giving something up by not printing the chrome myself. I never found any lab to do a better job than I did myself...not that I'm a great printer but perhaps I had more time to get it right.



With chromes its so easy to see how far off you are unlike negatives etc so I was more than a bit annoyed when I went to the local lab here and saw that they were off by at least 60CCs of red and 20CCs of yellow, no small amounts! Anything red in the image went to a dull brown, the greens were almost blue. Ahh well, the search continues!!!

[roteague]

Yeah, a sorry tale. I tried calling Fuji today aboaut their reversal paper and the guy who answered didn't know if the company ever made it...sigh. I did look into West Coast but still feel like I am giving something up by not printing the chrome myself. I never found any lab to do a better job than I did myself...not that I'm a great printer but perhaps I had more time to get it right.



With chromes its so easy to see how far off you are unlike negatives etc so I was more than a bit annoyed when I went to the local lab here and saw that they were off by at least 60CCs of red and 20CCs of yellow, no small amounts! Anything red in the image went to a dull brown, the greens were almost blue. Ahh well, the search continues!!!

Sorry to hear that. I don't know of anyone who makes a type 'R' paper anymore. Ilfochrome is the only reversal process that I know of, and the materials, chemicals, etc, can be difficult to come by - not even mentioning that it can be a difficult material to print with.

WCI is a great lab, but there is also Calypso in Santa Cruz (who does all my developing work), as well as Laser Light Photographics (I know Rich and trust his recommendations). I wouldn't worry about any of them, they all have some of the best photographers in the business using their services. Of course, you do lose the hands on aspect; although with WCI you can get a work print to look at and approve before the final print is made. This route works for me, simply because I find printing color to be real drudge work at best.

[CP Goerz]

Once I read the article in the mag Darkroom and Creative Camera Techniques on Ilfochrome I knew I had finally got my hands around the neck of all my printing problems. The article described how the process is really a B+W process with the bleaching stage in the middle. Since I knew I could soften the developers contrast down and make cheaper fixer myself there was a payoff everywhere.The Beers developer (which is a variable type) not only controlled the contrast ,which could be outrageous as anyone who printed it knows, but it also had the effect of raising the paper speed AND the massive colour swings from just a few CCs were GONE! I think Ilford made the developer way too contrasty and that made printing very difficult therefore reducing the number of folk who would continue with it.


I usually let the bleach run a little longer to get cleaner whites and longer fixing times to get the job done a little more completely. If we are at the end of the Ilfochrome road I for one will be very very sad, a glossy print from that stuff just knocked your socks off.

[Wayne]

Once I read the article in the mag Darkroom and Creative Camera Techniques on Ilfochrome I knew I had finally got my hands around the neck of all my printing problems. The article described how the process is really a B+W process with the bleaching stage in the middle. Since I knew I could soften the developers contrast down and make cheaper fixer myself there was a payoff everywhere.The Beers developer (which is a variable type) not only controlled the contrast ,which could be outrageous as anyone who printed it knows, but it also had the effect of raising the paper speed AND the massive colour swings from just a few CCs were GONE! I think Ilford made the developer way too contrasty and that made printing very difficult therefore reducing the number of folk who would continue with it.


I usually let the bleach run a little longer to get cleaner whites and longer fixing times to get the job done a little more completely. If we are at the end of the Ilfochrome road I for one will be very very sad, a glossy print from that stuff just knocked your socks off.

If you havent printed cibas in a while you are going to be disappointed even if you find a supply, because control over contrast via the developer is no longer what it used to be. In other words it doesnt work.


Wayne

[roteague]

If you havent printed cibas in a while you are going to be disappointed even if you find a supply, because control over contrast via the developer is no longer what it used to be. In other words it doesnt work.


Wayne

Many of the top Cibachrome printers, like Christopher Burkett, use contast masks to get around the problem. But, that isn't easy, and is time consuming.

[Wayne]

Well yes, you can certainly still control contrast that way. But if he's hoping to control by development like in the old days he can save himself the trouble.


Wayne

[jonsmith]

I found this link with a web search:

http://www.rainierphoto.com/workshop5.htm

They say they carry the new kit and paper, too, and none of the BS about hazmat. Ground shipping only though.

I shoot Ilfochrome with an 85B filter in my 8x10 camera (only sunset hours give decent color) and am glad to find a possible supplier. I used to get it from Calumet in LA.

Here's a sample:

[Wayne]

Its been 3-4 years since I ordered Ilforchrome chemicals, but B&H was the only one that wouldnt ship it. But B&H wont ship the majority of chemicals though, so dont go by them.
They became anal retentive about all chemicals 5-6 years ago, but none of my other suppliers followed suit.


Wayne