Bill, The reason I recommended the Zone Ruler idea is that, many times, there are no "standard" placements for subject values in the zone system. Sure, if you want some kind of strictly "realistic" representation, you can invent some zone placements for specific things (skin in zone VI, textured snow or white water, zone VII, etc.) but, if, like me, you are after an expressive print, then it is better to be able to see how a certain value "feels" in the final print before you expose. And, until you are able to carry those zone placements and feelings around in your head with you, the zone ruler is a great way to get an idea, especially when you are interested in the amount of tonal space between two very close or distant values. I hope you don't mind my begging out of giving you what you asked for, but I simply don't work that way. The suggestions Ansel Adams, Minor White and others give in their books are more than adequate to get started and get a feeling for what a zone looks and feels like, and how much detail and texture you get in the outside zones. After that, let your imagination and creativity direct you. The same blue sky lends itself to many different expressive placements, especially with the use of filters, and maybe that zone VI skin would have a much greater effect in zone VI, or perhaps that zone III shadow needs the luminance of zone VI, or... You get the idea. Regards

;^D)