Repairs for 8x10 Deardorff

[Andrew Clearfield]

I'm trying to get a '62 vintage FS Deardorff into working condition, and have two questions:

Has anyone actually managed to loosen or remove those clips Deardorff used in order to attach the brackets holding the leather handle--without drilling them out? I have read in threads elsewhere of people unattaching the back of the bellows, removing the old handle, putting on a new one, reataching everything, and finishing the task in 20 minutes. Whoever did that must have some remarkably strong, ultra-thin prying tool, a willingness to attack good wood with homicidal energy, or some magical technique unknown to me. What am I missing?

Two, is it wise (or even possible) to replace a well-pinholed double-tapered bellows with a single taper probably designed for an earlier model 'dorf? I bought a replacement bellows for the camera on eBay, and then realized that the construction was different. Before I take the thing apart any further, I'd like some advice on whether the frames are the same, and whether the differential taper conveys a significant advantage. (My previous experience has all been with 4x5s, and bellows sag has never been a problem.)

Obviously, I can cut the old, fraying strap, replace it with a buckle-on, even though I have procured a proper copy of the original, and just set about spotting the bellows with whatever black goopy mixture seems to be most widely favored (the leader so far is Elmer's glue, detergent, and black pigment.) But I'm afraid I'll just have to keep touching up holes one after another, as either the repairs fail, or the bellows continue to deteriorate. But by the same token, I'd like to be able to use the damned camera already, without having to wait further weeks for yet another long-distance delivery or months for someone more expert than I to re-condition the old baby. Any wisdom based upon experience with this camera would be appreciated!

[Capocheny]

Hi Andrew,

You might wish to contact Richard Ritter and ask him these questions... if anyone, he will be able to answer your questions.

Cheers

I'm trying to get a '62 vintage FS Deardorff into working condition, and have two questions:

Has anyone actually managed to loosen or remove those clips Deardorff used in order to attach the brackets holding the leather handle--without drilling them out? I have read in threads elsewhere of people unattaching the back of the bellows, removing the old handle, putting on a new one, reataching everything, and finishing the task in 20 minutes. Whoever did that must have some remarkably strong, ultra-thin prying tool, a willingness to attack good wood with homicidal energy, or some magical technique unknown to me. What am I missing?

Two, is it wise (or even possible) to replace a well-pinholed double-tapered bellows with a single taper probably designed for an earlier model 'dorf? I bought a replacement bellows for the camera on eBay, and then realized that the construction was different. Before I take the thing apart any further, I'd like some advice on whether the frames are the same, and whether the differential taper conveys a significant advantage. (My previous experience has all been with 4x5s, and bellows sag has never been a problem.)

Obviously, I can cut the old, fraying strap, replace it with a buckle-on, even though I have procured a proper copy of the original, and just set about spotting the bellows with whatever black goopy mixture seems to be most widely favored (the leader so far is Elmer's glue, detergent, and black pigment.) But I'm afraid I'll just have to keep touching up holes one after another, as either the repairs fail, or the bellows continue to deteriorate. But by the same token, I'd like to be able to use the damned camera already, without having to wait further weeks for yet another long-distance delivery or months for someone more expert than I to re-condition the old baby. Any wisdom based upon experience with this camera would be appreciated!

[Jon Wilson]

My experience is from having replaced my deardorff V8 bellows. I discovered that inorder to replace the handle, the bellows had to be partially removed...in my case, I removed the bellows completely. This made replacing the handle easier. If your bellows are OK, then you might be able to "carefully" drill out the brads and insert a bigger screw which will not damage the bellows. If you look at the inside of the rear standard, then you will see how there is an inner frame on which the bellows are attached. You can also carefully remove it to obtain access to the top of the standard and remove the brads. When I use the term "brad," I am trying to describe how the brad is originally inserted through the top of the standard to hold the handle brackets and then the two pieces of the brad are folded to the side and punched into the bottom of the top of the rear standard. Hope this helps. Let me know if you have any questions. Enjoy your Deardorff....I love mine. Jon

[John Kasaian]

I'm trying to get a '62 vintage FS Deardorff into working condition, and have two questions:

Has anyone actually managed to loosen or remove those clips Deardorff used in order to attach the brackets holding the leather handle--without drilling them out? I have read in threads elsewhere of people unattaching the back of the bellows, removing the old handle, putting on a new one, reataching everything, and finishing the task in 20 minutes. Whoever did that must have some remarkably strong, ultra-thin prying tool, a willingness to attack good wood with homicidal energy, or some magical technique unknown to me. What am I missing?

Those clips are split rivets. Once you remove the rear bellows frame (Use a new correctly fitting slotted screwdriver---go ahead & spend the $---it'll keep you from boogering the heads of the screws) you can get them off by either pinching the splits together to break the rivet end apart, or if the rivets are loose enough simply cut the heads off (a cutting wheel on a dremel works if you have a steady hand and far more courage than I!) You'll need a very small, light ball peen hammer (2 oz I think it was) to split the new rivets without damaging the case. Of course you'll have to get the correct size and length new split rivets, you'll also need the correct size plated oval wood screws to replace the ones you botched up if you didn't get that new screwdriver. In my fair sized city, these items weren't available off the shelf at any of the hardware stores I know of. My suggestion is to contact a shop that specialized in 'dorff repairs. Tell 'em what you want and ask them to sell you the parts you'll need and assist over the phone or e-mail if you run into any problems. Replacing the handle isn't rocket science, nor time consuming and most technicians would probably rather spend thier time on more lucerative repairs.

Treat that 'dorff like the lady she is & good luck!

[Andrew Clearfield]

. . . you can get them off by either pinching the splits together to break the rivet end apart, or . . .

That's exactly the problem! Those damned things are embedded in the wood! There is no play to slip anything beneath the rivet from above, either!

Also--any suggestions about the bellows? They feel and look good, but they do have 15 - 20 pinholes (small, but there.) Is gook likely to work, and for how long? How important is it to have the newer bellows with the two different tapers? I wanna start using this baby in the worst way, not set up as a full-time camera repairman.

--Frustrated in Glen Ridge, New Jersey

[John Kasaian]

Andrew,

if the brackets that hold the handle are on tightly, I suggest not messing with them nless youwant to put a cut off wheel on a dremel and have at the rivet heads, which would prbably destroy the bracket, so you'll have to add another ting onto your list. I'd try this: IIRC you have a good handle so you can use it as a pattern. Get some leather scraps 1/2 the thickness of the handle. get enough scrap leather to cut two handles 1/2 the thickness (Tandy usually has a pile of assorted leather scrap for sale. Some hardware stores still carry "farmer's bundles" of lace belly.)Have a leatherworker punch holes for stitching around the edges and then give the pieces a good soaking in neatsfoot oil or glycerin to soften them buttery soft (with lace belly you can use water!) then work the "barbs' or "spearheads" through the brackets. Once the two pieces are in place, stitch them together by hand---you might want to add a 'stiffener' of some sort to as insurance against the ends working out of the brackets.

For pinholes, Equinox Photographic in Oregon has little bottles of stuff for pinholed bellows. Its quite reasonable (IIRC its a lot cheaper than Calumet's stuff) and not as messy as homebrews (or course I haven't heard of all the recipes to make bellows patching "juice") and it works for me. YMMV of course.

As for the oddly tapered 'dorff bellows on your camera there is a good reason for them. With extremely wide angle lenses they offer greater movement of the front standard when the bellows are compressed---no need to switch to bag bellows (something neccesary on many 4x5 cameras when used with extremely wide angles where some movement is needed for perspective control.) It is a real improvement over the old untapered bellows.

If you'd rather replace your bellows, there is an outfit in the UK that makes camera bellows that everyone raves about. A search of the archives should get you a link to them.

I hope this helps.

[Donald Miller]

I have replaced several of these handles. Yes, the bellows must be removed. That requires removing four screws on the front bellows frame and six from the rear bellows frame on the cameras that I have had.

Once the bellows is out, insert a thin blade screwdriver under each of the splits of the four rivets and pry them up out of the wood...yes, you will booger the wood and since it is underneath you will never see it. If the rivets break, Ace Hardware has new split rivets.

I would guarantee that anyone that replaces a handle will go about it this way. It really isn't that big a deal. I sure wouldn't get near a camera with a cut off tool on a dremel however you can do as you wish.

I have replaced several bellows as well. Western Bellows in California is who I used and I was pleased with their workmanship and service. The double taper bellows is what Deardorff found would work best with wide angle lenses. If you want to patch the bellows, Bostick and Suillivan sells a material for patching them I have used black acrylic before and it sealed pinholes.

[lee\c]

I concur with all the info above. That is exactly the steps one must take to replace the leather carrying handle. I can't do it in 20 minutes but 30 minutes is more like it.

lee\c

[Kevin Klazek]

I did a user restoration to a V5 earlier this year. I replaced the handle and the bellows. I removed the split rivets just like Don said. Pry them up from the underside and push them out. The bit of marking you do to the wood (in a spot you will never see) is much easier on the nerves than drilling or using a dremel tool. A small ball peen hammer is used to tap the new rivets back down. This is a 3 or 4 handed job as you have to have the top of the rivit on a hard surface like a vice. I obtained the replacement rivets and handle from Ken Hough. The bellows was from Camera Bellows UK and is a great product. I have the synthetic bellows which should last forever. They have excellent customer service and very quick delivery.