Please tell me how easy it is to shoot with a 4 x 5

[David.R.Williams]

I'm looking at getting a large format camera, but I can't help to be some what i ntimidated about how easy it is to use when I first get started. It will be used mostly for landscape. I heard that right away (not even using any movements) th at I will get awesome results! (of course with a good camera, lens and proper fo cus/exposure). I heard that it's a situation of "what you see is what you get". In other words if that's true, I should be able to start shooting right away wit hout being paranoid of what seems to be a somewhat complex exercise in learning how to use shift/tilt/swing movements. Even adjusting those movements should'nt be very complex at all if it's really a situation of "what you see is what you g et". If that is true I should be able to figure out by seeing with a loupe, what movements are doing what. I have also read that each large format camera, depen ding on design, has to have each control operated on in a certain order, which w ould just take a little time to get use to. As far as film goes, that looks like it can be a real pain, mostly out in the field! Unless, at first I use the pre packaged/preloaded film that seem's available in a decent assortment of film typ es. So folks, here it is, if I purchase a well made 4 X 5, some top notch lenses , it should be very easy to use when I'm first getting started.....right?? If I don't use any movements, and I just load the preloaded/packaged film, (later on I'll load the sheet film myself if I desire), adjust shutter speed, aperture, f ocus and shoot (basically, and not in that order) ....but thats about it right?. .huh? That's how easy it can be when your first getting started with a large fo rmat camera system....RIGHT? Fairly fast and easy, providing the exposure is cor rect, I'll get better results than a medium format system? What ever I see on th e groudglass is what I get in the picture??...RIGHT? Thanks for all your time an d remarks.

[Ron Shaw]

Thats about it. My first LF images were done without movements, and after seeing the resulting chromes, I was hooked forever.

[Dave Brown]

Yes and no. For me, the hard part of photography is the same no matter what format I use.

I would say no to the notion that large format is wysiwyg. Images on the ground glass don't appear to have as much contrast as they do in real life. It can be difficult or impossible to preview depth of field, because many subjects aren't bright enough to view with the lens stopped down. Perhaps the ground glass doesn't lie, but it doesn't tell the whole truth either.

There are ways around these problems (I don't do all of my composition on the ground glass, and if in doubt, I shoot a Polaroid).

But yes, you should be able to start right away and get decent results (providing you understand the basics of composition and lighting, etc., etc.).

Good luck.

[David Richhart]

If you want easy, buy yourself an automatic point-and-shoot type camera, Dave. It will save you from a lifetime addiction to large caneras!

Because with large format, from your very first picture, you will be amazed at the sharpness and the clarity of the image. From the first image you will be hooked. From then on, you will become obcessed with learning the hows and the whys of all the movements of the camera. You will no longer see things in color, but in "zones". You will have nightmares because of some guy named "Scheimpflug". You will try to get your backpack as light as you can, but it's a losing battle because you know the lens that you leave in the car will be the one you need! You will become pale from the time spent in the shade of the focussing cloth. And you will learn to curse the wind!

So if easy is what you are looking for, don't EVER take your first picture in large format. I made that very mistake in 1969, and I have been addicted for 31 years. -Dave

[David_892]

From a certain point of view, the more money you have to spend the easier it is - i.e you CAN afford a spotmeter combined with ambient and flash metering modes, as well as a colour temperature meter (though this is, unless the job in hand requires no deviation from a certain colour temp, unnecessary) and the latest glass from Nikon, Rodenstock, Fuji or Schneider) as if you have all the latest kit thats' a few less variables to worry about. That said, but it is quite feasible to take gob smackingly beautiful images on 50's vintage lenses (like me - Xenar 150mm, Kodak Ektar 203mm and - don't slag it down - a Wray 89mm one of the batch for the MPP S92 cameras in MOD service). Please note you can qutie easily pick up a nice second hand 4x5 camera for well under a grand - approx #780 including darkslides the above lenses, a polaroid back and some film, oh and a 6x7 roll film back. BTW it is quit easy to start as I remember my first exposure was spot on, perfectly exposed an all, pity about the 15th to 21st kinda buggered them up a bit

[Daniel Taylor]

rent or borrow.

LF is a large scale endeavour. you will be elated and severely disappointed at times. my first outting with a rental Toyo was comical and disasterous. everything that could go wrong, did. the Polaroids were lacking, the discomfort factor high, the opportunity for error vast. I must have seen potential, because the weekend drew to a close and I was still picking up the view camera books.

one word though .. do not let friends or loved ones see you at work the first time out. when the wind picks up, blowing the dark cloth around your neck, you drop the lightmeter, forget to pull the darkslide at times and multiple-expose the rest, lose your loupe, and miss the perfect light because you forgot to cock the shutter, words you have never used since boot camp will surely flow from beneath the cape. and I haven't mentioned exposure settings .. trust me, you'll forget. best of luck.

[Roger Rouch]

Dave, I will give you my perspective as someone who has been at LF for about a year and still has a lot to learn. My first LF camera was a Busch Pressman and a cheap light meter for a total of about $250. From my first box of film (10 negs) I got a photo that is still on my wall and is as good as or better (to me) than anything I had done with several years of 35mm. Part of this is at least due to the enlarability of the format. I think i would recommend a better camera and lens(es) for a beginner, but I do think you can get started very well for less than $1000 with many choices.

I have had the problems that others warned of. I've had double exposures, no exposure (forgot to cock the shutter), light leaks, exposure mistakes, focus challenges, no film in the holder, and so on. I got over this fairly quickly and all-in-all it has been great fun and I've had many nice photos. It's really not that hard.

I would make some suggestions that I'm sure others would differ from. I would say to go ahead and jump into regular film holders. I had just as many problems getting used to quick loads as sheet film. The only probelms I would see with regular holders is weight if you're packing a ways. After you've done it once it's easy and it's cheaper. I would also skip the polaroid back. It's just one other piece of equipment to add to the complicated nature of things, especially when your in the field. They do have their place, but I didn't find it an advantage when starting out. I would also suggest that you can get by with less than a spot meter unless you have plans to use the zone system and do a lot of B+W. I use a Gossen Luna Pro and at the point I'm at it does fine. I do use the 7.5 degree spot adapter occationally. I would also suggest that you use negative film (vs slide) for at least a short amount of time. It's more forgiving for exposure miscalulations and will avoid some unneccessary frustation right out of the starting box.

Focusing with movements is still a challenge to me, but as you may know, there will be many times when you don't need them at all and other times when they will be slight.

To me, LF is like a lot of other things - it's not that hard to do an OK job with, but you can spend a whole lifetime perfecting. For what it may be worth, Roger

[Doug Paramore]

David: Large format gives you many opportunities to make a complete ass of yourself. It also gives you an opportunity to make some of the best images you will ever make. Large format images gives you what you were trying to get all these years with smaller format. There is a learning curve, but what worthwhile does not have a learning curve. Most of the common errors are as the previous respondents have listed: failure to pull the slide, failure to reset the lens after focusing, failure to load film in a holder, failure to reset the shutter, etc. I would suggest that you set up the camera in your house or yard and practice the drill with blank holders. Do it until you don't have to really think about it. Focus, close the shutter, set the aperature, set the shutter speed, put in a holder, pull the slide, click the shutter, turn the slide over and reinsert, remove the holder. Do this over and over until it becomes habit. You will find it helps a lot when you get in the field. Above all, don't hurry. LF is a contemplative image making process. Take your time at first. You can build up speed as everything becomes more familiar. This is not motor drive photography. Make some images and develop carefully. Be prepared to get your socks knocked off. Sit back and see what a real print looks like. Good shooting, Doug.

[David Richhart]

I just read Doug's suggestion about practicing with a camera without loading the film holders. I think it's a great way to learn, Doug, and it reminded me of a cheap and simple exercise I learned years ago.

Don't use film, but load the holders with photographic paper. I think you shoot the paper at around ASA 60.

That way you get to practice loading the film holders under a safelite (using paper instead of film). You actually go through all the motions involved in setting up the camera, and making an exposure. And after developing the paper in a normal manner, you have an image that you can evaluate to see if you are doing things correctly. You can go from the camera, to the darkroom, and have an image in under 5 minutes!

It's a cheap, easy, and quick way to learn the basic mechanics. Some of the results may even surprist you.

Paper negatives, anyone??? -Dave

[Frederick Leif]

Dave,

I agree with previous posts...but no one appears to have responded to your notion of "Fairly fast and easy...".

Look at the posts...you see words like contemplative and Zen...this may not fit your definition. You will also find times when you set up the shot...look at the ground glass for awhile and decide it isn't right...and put the stuff back in the pack...which saves the money that would otherwise be spent on the film and processing...even if you never make a print.

I think the watchwords are to take your time. Think about what you're doing...and why. Consider the subject carefully. Maybe the light isn't right today...but it may be terrific next week. For me, this is what sets LF work apart from 35mm or even medium format. And when you've got 'one', you can measure its neg size in tens of square inches instead of one or two...which REALLY stands out in the finished print on the wall whether it is an 8x10 or 16x20 or ... .