Really wide lenses - examples?

[Jack Flesher]

Jack, did you use tilt? Bet these are REALLY sensitive to not having the camera aligned exactly.

My shot has a few degrees of both tilt and swing as well as a few mm of shift and rise. I was jammed in-between the black rock and the wall of rock and the only way to get the composition was using all of the movements. If you look closely, you can see the wall on the far left is a tad soft; impossible to get it all sharp in this kind of composition, so decisions about what el;ements stay sharp need to be made.

As for 9 degrees of tilt -- that is a HUGE amount of tilt on a short lens; the effects of tilt (and swing) on PoF are magnified as you go shorter in focal length.

Cheers,

[Henry Ambrose]

I think a Crown Graphic would work by dropping the bed. A Fotoman would be fine as I don't think movements matter that much for basic superwide pictures. Whatever camera without movements would work much like a super wide on a 35mm camera. If you didn't miss movements then, you probably won't now. f16 or f22 covers a lot of dof on a 58mm lens.

[Nick_3536]

My question about movements is really about the cheapest camera I can use one of these on - there is no way I can use it on my old Technika, so I need a second camera. I want to hold on to the Technika because I like to use the nangefinder, so I do not want to spend a lot on the second camera. If movements were not an issue, I could use a Fotoman. If they are useful, I might be able to use a Shen-Ho with the bag bellows. (I really want to avoid recessed lens boards.) Anyone know the minium bellows extension on a Crown Graphic - the flange focal length for a 58 is 70mm.

The B&J press could just handle the 70mm but you can't drop the bed with that short a lens and forget much if any movements.

[Joseph O'Neil]

My question about movements is really about the cheapest camera I can use one of these on - there is no way I can use it on my old Technika, so I need a second camera. I want to hold on to the Technika because I like to use the nangefinder, so I do not want to spend a lot on the second camera. If movements were not an issue, I could use a Fotoman. If they are useful, I might be able to use a Shen-Ho with the bag bellows. (I really want to avoid recessed lens boards.) Anyone know the minium bellows extension on a Crown Graphic - the flange focal length for a 58 is 70mm.

I have a Crown, and with the drop bed, you can use something very wide, but your movements will be restricted, even with a recessed lens board. (and if you can find a recessed lens board for a Crown too! ). Add to that, I ahve used recessed lens boards int he past, I still have one for my monorail, and I find them a complete PITA.

My personal feeling is, at 90mm or smaller (in 4x5 at least) a monorail rules supreme when you want the best possible range of movements. Even if you just won a lottery, walked into Badger Graphic, and saw one of every field camera ever made all ready for an instant sale, I still think monorails rule for movements on super-wide lenses. However, monorails - any type, style, brand - are not simply as portable, especailly if you are backpacking.

So dunno where to go. I woudl not go smaller than say 75mm on a Crown myself, but other's milage may vary.

good luck
joe

[Ed Richards]

Why can't you use one of those Chinese made (or the original OEM) helical focusing mounts on a Technika board? And just go wide enough that movements are ridiculous (like >65mm).

I have not seen the Chinese versions - do you have a link? The OEM (Linhof) version is only sold with the lens, and the pair go for more than 3K!!! The old linhof wide focusing adapter looks like a real kludge and the cheapest one I can find is $600.

[Frank Petronio]

http://cgi.ebay.com/WIDE-ANGLE-DEVIC...QQcmdZViewItem

I do not have any experience with these, I only noticed it - YMMV.

[Ron Marshall]

My question about movements is really about the cheapest camera I can use one of these on.

Ed, KEH has a Toyo 45F monorail with bag bellows for $265. Not very convenient for field use, but cheap and with the bag bellows should handle a 58mm.

http://www.keh.com/OnLineStore/ProductDetail.aspx

[Ole Tjugen]

Another alternative is a really old really cheap German plate camera!

My 24x30cm (9.5x12") plate camera has a minimum flange focal length of 38mm, maximum of 88cm. It offers 6cm each way of rise and shift, as well as 10 degrees rear tilt and swing (both axial).

My 13x18cm camera offers slightly less max. extension and slightly less front movements.

An interesting modern "superwide" camera, seemingly based loosely on these, is the Argentum xl.

[Jack Flesher]

I wouldn't worry about movements too much. Most cameras won't let you do much with a lens this short anyway and when stopped down it mostly does not matter. Exceptions might be Jack's picture with the rock at 14 inches from the camera.

Good point Henry and one that should be clarified. With these hyper wide lenses, there is very little additional image circele to play with -- usually only a few mm. In my black rock shot, since I was close to the main subject I had some additional bellows extension for the close focus on the rock. This in turn gave me some added image circle to work with (image circle is smallest at infinity focus) and allowed for more movement than normally available.

Here is a second example with the same lens from the same trip. In this one I did added a few degrees of tilt to span the log, but was further away and actually added some fall (rear rise) to "help" the image circle re-center on the frame. In this image I am about 4 feet above the base of the tree, the root ball is about 3 feet in diameter and I have the camera above and only slightly behind the roots, but angled down about 20 degrees (the tripod legs are just outside the frame):



Cheers,

[CXC]

1. I keep my 65mm semi-permanently mounted on a Gowland 4x5 monorail with bag bellows; I am sure it would accommodate wider lenses just as well. My guess would be that any decently designed monorail with a bag bellows should pretty much handle any lens 90mm or wider; you run out of lens coverage before you run out of camera movements.

2. Personally I find rise to be the only useful movement with superwides. What do others think?

3. Sometimes tilt/swing is limited by the rear element colliding with the ground glass.

4. Rise can also be provided by a lensboard with an off-center hole, in which case a camera that takes big lensboards is an advantage, as is one that takes exactly square boards, or may be readily shot sideways or upside down.

Just some thoughts...