Suter Aplanat A No 3

[Ole Tjugen]

Suter Aplanats as of 1910:

Rapidaplanat f/5: 20, 27, 38, 42, 50, 65 and 80cm.
Rapidaplanat Serie A f/6: 13, 21, 24, 30, 42, 48, 55, 65 and 90cm.

Aplanat Serie B f/8: 13, 17, 23, 28, 36, 48, 55, 65 and 75cm.

Weitwinkelaplanat Serie C f/12: 11, 15, 22, 30 and 40cm.

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I can't find any "Serie E" which might match, only Goerz Lynkeioskop Serie E f/7.7 which doesn't match up with a #3 being 275mm'ish at all. The only "Universal-Rapid-Aplanat" f/8 I find was made by Gebrüder Nitzschke of whom I know nothing more than that.

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Struan, Aplanats were made before the new Jena glasses were introduced. Those glasses were what made the Anastigmats possible; Aplanats need only "common" flint and crown glasses.

[Struan Gray]

Thanks for the lists Ole - they'll save me some time next time I'm tempted into brassland :-)

I think I knew that aplanats/rr-s preceeded Jena glass, but I also think I'm right in saying that the 'Universal' name was applied to the improved aplanat series Steinheil brought out using the new glasses when they became available. I can't remember if I read that in the vademecum or the 1911 Encyclopedia Britannica, and I can't check right now - what is that first thing that goes as you get older.....

OK, I found a text-only vademecum lurking on my hard drive. It confirms what I thought I remembered. It also mentions the Goerz Lynkeioskop Series E as a very long-lived lens line (into the 1920s), so it's entirely possible that the unknown maker or rebadger of Garrett's lens was trying to leverage off the Goerz reputation - or sold Goerz lenses in disguise.

The vademecum does very briefly mention a firm of photographic manufacturers and dealers called Huth Brothers (Gebruder Huth) from Dresden who sold an f8 "Universal Rapid Aplanat Series E for 13x18" around the turn of the last century, presumably on one of their own camera models. That would fit with the styling of Garrett's lens (black front, 'modern' f-stops). But without provenance I would guess that is about as far as we're likely to be able to trace this particular lens.

[Ole Tjugen]

You're right - Steinheil's Universal-Aplanat of 1886 was made with "neue Gläser", new glass types.

Gebrüder Huth is not mentioned in Hartmut Thiele's "Deutsche Photooptik von A - Z", which I trust somewhat more than the Vade Mecum when it comes to German optics. This indicates that they were not the manufacturers of the lens...

"Modern" f-stops were used by most German manufacturers almost from the beginning. Some used other systems, but they are few enough that it is easier to identify the exceptions!

[goamules]

Thanks Struan and Ole, we've narrowed down this lens, and it's interesting history. I bet it's German, and it's from 1900 or so. Now it's up to the lens, I'll need to shoot with it. Great help.

[Struan Gray]

...I'll need to shoot with it.....

Steady on. A rash move like that could get you thrown out of the Guild.

[Lundsgaard]

hi guys,
pardon for taking up this old thread, but i have ran into similar problems regarding focus length and aperture.
i recently acquired an old danish 18x24 cm (nearly 8x10") mahogany camera in very nice cond.
it came with this brass lens, clearly marked:

E Suter Basel
no 17828
Aplanat A no 3
aperture markings goes from 3 to 100 in 6 steps
no "F" letter as seen on other lenses
no focal length.

i am quite confused, if i look at Ole Tjugens list in this thread, it should be a 240 mm,
but with my very best efforts, it gives 300 mm from aperture to GG at infinity . 280 mm to mount flange.
My metering Must be correct ?

as for aperture, i understand it should be F6 , but if i measure the iris with a caliper and calculate,
it gives app. F2,5. (focal length / iris diameter)
Where is the mistake ?
will the 6 F stops correspond to the steps in a modern aperture scale?

thank you
klaus
denmark

[Steven Tribe]

Don't be alarmed Klaus!

The list that Ole has is correct for the period of the reference he has. But there are differences between the numbers for different periods!
I have serial number 11,385 which is Series A, no. 4 and it doesn't match with the focal length given in Ole's list.

The Rapid F.5 Suter aplanat size no. 3 ( a somewhat later design to compete with Voiugtländer Euryscope III, perhaps?) was quite popular as a normal portrait lens in Scandinavian studios.

as for aperture, i understand it should be F6 , but if i measure the iris with a caliper and calculate,
it gives app. F2,5. (focal length / iris diameter)
Where is the mistake ?

It is F6. The mistake must be in your calculation. The old "F3" (meaning modern F6) could be a number of old scales. We need some other numbers to find out whether is the US, Dallmeyer etc. scale.

[Lundsgaard]

after reading further on, calculating the aperture, i understand, that one holds the lens at some distance from ones eye, and then meter the iris opening.
how on earth is that possible ?
i metered directly IN the iris.
anyway, the numbers on the lens:
3 - 4 -8 - 16 - 32 - 100
will that help ?
klaus

klaus

[Jim Andrada]

You don't want to measure the physical aperture itself but rather you should measure the apparent size of the aperture as seen through the front of the lens with the glass in place. This is what you should use to calculate the f-stop. So hold the lens up and look through the lens from the front and measure the size of the opening that you see looking through the front of the lens.

[Peter Yeti]

Klaus,

Your aperture numbers indicate one of the old numbering systems going with c*2^n, which have been popular in Germany. Goerz and Voigtlaender used them, though with a different constant for c. Your numbers come close to the Voigtlaender scheme where 16=f/16, so 3 is something like f/6.8. On the Goerz scale 24=f/16, so 3 would correspond to about f/5.6. I'd think that most anonymous makers in Germany would have stuck to one of these two systems.