Kirk Gittings images at Freestyle and thoughts on Freesetyle policy

[PViapiano]

As a sidebar to this great conversation, I have to say that I made my first trip to Freestyle yesterday and couldn't have been more impressed with the store and the staff (I spoke with Norman, who was super friendly).

The wide breadth of items they carry in stock and also the general feel of the retail area is great and I expect to be returning there many times. A much more personal feel than that other more well-known camera store in town.

I missed the gallery, though. Maybe I'll stop by this weekend to have a look...

[Kirk Keyes]

Joel Peter Witkin - "overnight success".

Perhaps "overnight of the dead" success...

[paulr]

I have only personally ever known one overnight sensation, Joel Peter Witkin, who worked relentlessly for 15 years to become an "overnight success".

ha, yeah, that's how it seems to be with overnight successes.

if you meet one of these overnight successes (in art, music, or whatever) and make a typical remark like "wow, you just came out of nowhere!" ... be prepared for some fingers around your throat. they probably busted their ass for most of their life in order to come out of nowhere overnight.

[Daniel Geiger]

Some very candid thoughts:

We are all in the end self taught. Getting degrees is about paying your dues and networking, they are not about gaining knowledge. I have learned far more from this forum about photography than in the 6 years I spent in art school. ".

A German proverb is "Kunst kommt von Können": Art is derived from ability. So there is actually knowledge in art. It is wholeheartedly wrong that spending time in gradschool is only for networking. It may be true that you learn more by yourself than from lectures/labs, but learning and demonstrating the ability to learn by yourself is a critical component of grad school. I can only speak from my own experience in the physical sciences, but I cannot imagine that matters are all that different in the fine arts.

Furthermore, even "odd/ugly" art is derived from a controlled process, not some happy accident. Once you controll that process, you KNOW how to get the desired effect. Whether it is "good" is another matter all together.

Additionally, just 6 years out of grad school, I have seen several times that the people who actually know what they are doing are succeeding, while the folks who only cultivate their networking ability are falling by the way side.

Greetings from the ivory tower ... ;-)

[Kirk Gittings]

Daniel,

Having been associated for over thirty years with the ivory tower, most of that time with two of the leading university schools of photography, I can say with some confidence that there is no direct correlation between ability and success in art.

[JW Dewdney]

Daniel,

Having been associated for over thirty years with the ivory tower, most of that time with two of the leading university schools of photography, I can say with some confidence that there is no direct correlation between ability and success in art.

I couldn't agree more. I've seen TONS of unbelievably talented nosedive because they sucked at self-promotion, or weren't good 'businesspeople'. OTOH, you see lots of really visible garbage out there, right? I'd say there's definitely a correlation between 'success' (as we define it in north america) and 'ambition'.

[JW Dewdney]

Additionally, just 6 years out of grad school, I have seen several times that the people who actually know what they are doing are succeeding, while the folks who only cultivate their networking ability are falling by the way side.

I'd love to believe it.

[Donald Brewster]

Hey Kirk: Nice photo on the Freestyle catalog cover. I guess you are what passes for a LF ingenue?

[Kirk Gittings]

Donald,

"Ingenue-An ingenuous or na["i]ve girl or young woman, or an actress representing such a person."

God, I hope not...........................

[JW Dewdney]

come on, Kirk - you KNOW you're a naïve young lady trapped in a middle aged man's body!