I was interested in the question on Arca Swiss cameras. I am trying to make up m y mind whether to go for a very basic Arca Swiss which a friend wants me to buy or whether to go for a much more expensive Sinar P2, both quite old. Any views p lease?
I was interested in the question on Arca Swiss cameras. I am trying to make up m y mind whether to go for a very basic Arca Swiss which a friend wants me to buy or whether to go for a much more expensive Sinar P2, both quite old. Any views p lease?
Opinions are divided between whether it's the lens on the front of the camera or the photographer behind it which makes the difference. The 'box' which the lens is attached to makes very little difference in my view. Most of our work is studio still life, with some architectural. I have had an old (very) basic Arca Swiss for a long time and know it thoroughly. My business partner has a Sinar P2 and I use this too. Both turn out the same results but are very different to use. The Arca swings & tilts from the base, which means that you need to re- focus quite dramatically each time you alter one of these movements. The Sinar moves from the lens axis, which is much quicker and easier. If you want to calculate swings/tilts with the Arca (using the hing rule) you need to use a protractor, with the Sinar the movements are both geared and marked, so making life easier. The Sinar is also much better engineered and far more rigid. If you are photographing very similar products using the Sinar you just need to change the product and the camera settings will be the same. With the Arca, I have found to my cost that it's a good idea to shoot another polaroid to make sure that the camera is still as originally set. The Sinar is a much more expensive, and expensive-looking tool and so is more impressive to clients but if this 'bullshit factor' is not important your decision should be based on your personal preferences, or on how much money you will have left after buying the Sinar. Personally I would prefer to buy the Arca and spend the saving on film!My views are those of a commercial photographer and are based on my own experiences of these 2 cameras. If you are doing landscapes, which I know nothing about, they may not be relevant. Hope this helps a bit.
Hi John, There is no doubt: the ARCA SWISS cameras are the better cameras. The actual M-L ine or F-Line models are far better and more intelligently designetd than the SINAR; and astronomically far better crafted. Above all ARCAs are lighter and more stable (in the days of the very old Sinar Norma it was different,but this days are long time passed). Because of the very loud and noisy PR campaigns SINAR always counted on, the Sinars are a bit more spread in the LF market ( and as a sticky rumour goes in S witzerland also quite at the end of economical wealth). I'm working since years with an 8x10 M-Line with a great pleasure. But the good picture is made by the guy behind the camera. PS: I'm Swiss, but having no further connections to either brand then the once m ade decision. Regard, Urs
John, try this:
Ask 20 Arca owners and 20 Sinar owners to fill in the blank:
"There is no doubt: _________ are the better cameras."
My guess is that every owner will vote for what he or she uses; when one uses $4000-6000 cameras one doesn't put up very long with an inferior product (and Urs, with all due respect to your opinion, it's a trifle insulting to professionals who have used Sinar for decades to suggest that they do so simply because of "Sinar's loud and noisy PR campaigns").
John, assume that the build quality for the two cameras is equal; both are world renowned for thoughtful engineering and design innovations (for instance, Sinar's angle calculator is to me extremely valuable when working in a hurry). Judge your particular choice based on the condition of the two cameras you have access to, the price, and your personal needs (e.g., if it's a lightweight Arca it's probably more portable than the P2). Which model Arca is it? Is one cheaper option cheaper than the other?
Other than that, no one in this forum will be able to do much more than tell you what works for THEM.
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. . . and whether Arca or Sinar prevails in your survey will depend not on objective truth or even widespread wisdom but on how many users of either system are monitoring this forum today. Both brands, in a word, are generally VERY highly regarded.
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I've owned and used both, and agree that your answer will depend on who answers. You need to find which works better for you! If I were working in a studio setting it would be a toss-up between a Sinar P2 and an Arca Monolith line. But I do field work, and the Arca F-line is much lighter and packs much more compactly, so for me, it is the best choice. I tried a Sinar F series camera, and it did not seem like either a good field or good studio choice.
Here is a simple solution - Find a store like KJP or Calumet and rent each camera for atleast a week each. At the end of the rental period you will have formed your own opinion as to which marque is most useful to yourself.
FWIW, Calumet doesn't rent either brand, although Helix in Chicago and several shops in New York rent both.
I'm guessing, though, that renting two full view camera systems for a week or more will rival the purchase cost of a "quite old," "very basic" Arca Swiss. . . .
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There is a real diference between the older Arca Swiss cameras and the current A rca Swiss F-line and Monolith camera. Sinar P2 cameras are excellent, but they are primarily machines for the studio (as is the Arca Swiss Monolith camera). I think an apples to apples comparison in terms of handling characteristics is the Sinar C and the Arca Swiss F-line. I used to own a Sinar C and eventually replac ed it with an Arca Swiss F-line as it was more compatable with doing field work yet retained theexacting precision I require for studio workI really loved my Sinar C but it was too heavy to constantly lug around and it was wearing out. Which brings up another point: the amount of wear the cameras have experienced. A Sinar P2 that has seen a lot of use may require a fairly expensive overhaul. It is a precision inmstrument that may require "tuning". But so can an Arca Swiss or any other camera for that matter. My favorite points about the Sinar C and P2: the built-in depth of field, Scheim pflug calculator. This can help you find the optimum f-stop (i.e the widest f- stop) very quickly for complex studio work; and the vast amount of used accessor ies availible. My favorite points about the Arca Swiss F-line: how it handles, having rise in t he focal plane (no need to refocus if using front or rear rise) My favorite things about the Sinar P2 and C and the Arca Swiss F-line; the preci sion and that all threeare yaw-free design. From unhappy experiences, I agree with Glenn that the Sinar F series is nowhere near the camera that the Arca Swiss F-line is even though the two are similar in weight.
John - don't listen to hard to Urs Bernhard. As I know here from Switzerland, he works for Arca Swiss. So his economical interests here are obvious. I tested both: Sinar and Arca Swiss. And I've found that Sinar is better in every way. Other might think differently. Arca Swiss is a good camera but Sinar is a real Swiss precision instrument. I guess that everybody who knows both brands will agree. You can be just as happy with both products. It's a joke however that Sinar would be in a bad economical condition, as Urs wants to make us believe.
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