Ansels The Negative

[monochromeFan]

Contradictions ive found in my first reading of it..


1. He says that film is intended to print as a grade two on paper, when used with the 18% middle grey value set by the light meter. IE use the meters reading directly, no alteration to it.


2. Several times, he makes it out that the zone system is only of use for scens with massive variations in light intensity in it.

3. Several pages are spent going over the proper use of an incident light meter.. but for some reason he makes much use of a BLACK card to illustrate proper use, vie the hand holding black card against adobe wall.

4. He tells us that holding an incident meter on top of a grey card, held against the object to be photographed will provide a more accurate meter reading than if the grey card was not used.. how is that even possible, outside of personal belief?

5. His description of the reflected light meter and the checker board, ive never seen anyone really talk about how a 30* meter will skew to the darks.

[Mark Sampson]

Which edition do you have? There were several (considerably different) ones, ranging from the 1950s forward.

[BrianShaw]

I’m struggling a bit trying to understand what you think are contradictions. Would you please elaborate? And references would be helpful for anyone who wants to review the context and help you understand.

One of your observations has me equally puzzled, #5. Okay, #4 also.

[Mark Sawyer]

Contradictions ive found in my first reading of it..


1. He says that film is intended to print as a grade two on paper, when used with the 18% middle grey value set by the light meter. IE use the meters reading directly, no alteration to it.

2. Several times, he makes it out that the zone system is only of use for scenes with massive variations in light intensity in it.

#2 answers #1. Most images require normal exposure and processing, so yes, just follow the meter and standard processing instructions. The Zone System is for improving the negative's printability in especially overly or underly contrasty situations.

[Tin Can]

#2 answers #1. Most images require normal exposure and processing, so yes, just follow the meter and standard processing instructions. The Zone System is for improving the negative's printability in especially overly or underly contrasty situations.

Been waiting a long time for truth

Thank thank you both

[Tin Can]

I meant to thank you also!

I am adjusting my life or is it Death






QUOTE=monochromeFan;1705772]Contradictions ive found in my first reading of it..


1. He says that film is intended to print as a grade two on paper, when used with the 18% middle grey value set by the light meter. IE use the meters reading directly, no alteration to it.


2. Several times, he makes it out that the zone system is only of use for scens with massive variations in light intensity in it.

3. Several pages are spent going over the proper use of an incident light meter.. but for some reason he makes much use of a BLACK card to illustrate proper use, vie the hand holding black card against adobe wall.

4. He tells us that holding an incident meter on top of a grey card, held against the object to be photographed will provide a more accurate meter reading than if the grey card was not used.. how is that even possible, outside of personal belief?

5. His description of the reflected light meter and the checker board, ive never seen anyone really talk about how a 30* meter will skew to the darks.[/QUOTE]

[Drew Wiley]

Meters are calibrated to 18% gray. Most gray cards allegedly are 18% too (but don't take that for granted). But placing an incident meter atop a gray card facing the light must be some kind of misunderstanding. I don't recall ever reading that. His Negative book does contain a number of clumsy explanations. I gave away my copy, so can't look it up for myself.

The Zone System allowed you to standardize on any grade or grades you chose to. AA might have used mainly Grade 2, and then altered procedure as necessary. I chose mainly Grade 3 instead. But exactly what specific grades meant differed somewhat between manufacturers; and today, few graded papers even exist anyway.

The Zone system was applicable to any scene contrast range, not just to strong contrast. Often low-contrast scenes need a boost in development; and your light reading would give a clue to how much. And I'm certain that was explained in The Negative as well. I don't think in terms of the Zone System anymore. After awhile, it all gets intuitive anyway.

[sharktooth]

I just happened to buy a copy of Ansel's "The Negative" at a thrift store last weekend ($3). I hadn't looked at it yet, but your questions prompted me to have a look.

It's clear to me that you are completely misunderstanding his explanations for use of the light meter. He shows a grey card held up in front of a white adobe wall. He explains that using an incident meter positioned in front of the grey card, and aimed at the camera, will give you the correct exposure to get the card and adobe wall to look right in the final print. He also shows another picture beside it taken with a reflected light reading of the same shot. The grey card now looks black since the exposure reading from the reflected light meter errs to underexposure, since it's reading a lot of the bright white adobe wall. These are completely logical explanations. He's NOT saying that you need to have a grey card behind the incident meter, or that the grey card will have any influence on the incident light meter reading.

Maybe you should start by looking at other explanations of how incident meters work. At this point, you're misunderstanding the fundamental concepts, so maybe another source will cause the lightbulb over your head to turn on. I thought Ansel was pretty clear, but that obviously doesn't work for everyone.

[BrianShaw]

@sharktooth makes a great point. There are many better ways to learn basic photography exposure concepts than Ansel’s writings. His works are best understood after the basics are well understood.

[Michael R]

Assuming the Zone System makes complete sense, The Negative isn’t a difficult book at all. I don’t get why people make it out to be complicated. It does contain some incorrect information about meters and other things but the concepts are simple - simple enough that the whole thing really needs little more than a few pages. If you don’t get it, dispense with it. You’ll get basically the same results either way.