Rodenstock Grandagon 115 vs Schneider Super Symmar 110 XL

[Joseph Kashi]

Hi,

I’m searching for a wide angle lens for 5x7 and landscape photography. My focus is on image quality. Aspects like size and costs are of lower relevance. Has anyone experience with both lenses (Rodenstock´s latest version Grandagon-N 115mm MC Green Stripe; Schneider Super Symmar 110 XL)? Any pros or cons regarding image quality? Thanks.

The Fujinon 105/8 NSW might fit the optical requirements on 5x7 as it has an image circle of 250 mm and hence quite adequate coverage. Both of my copies are very sharp and contrasty on 5x7. These are the more recent multicoated EBC "outside-writing" variants. However, it's a large lens, as evidenced by the 77mm front filter. On the positive side, they're more affordable than some of the other models mentioned in this thread and seem to be as good optically.

For a really compact lens in this range, the 120mm Schneider Angulon from the 1950s to about 1970, can be optically decent and very small, but tests that I've seen suggest that Schneider's quality control was a bit erratic in those days.

[Vaughan]

The SW 105mm is one of the few lenses where the image circle specs are the same for both old and new versions. For most other lenses the old versions have more coverage, often significantly more.

[r.e.]

If you're going to use a centre filter, you might as well be aware of the fact that the Schneider front thread is 86mm and the Rodenstock's is 112mm.

[John Layton]

...and which Schneider would that (86mm front thread) be? My 120 SA's front thread is 82mm, and my 110 XL's front thread is 67mm.

[r.e.]

...and which Schneider would that (86mm front thread) be? My 120 SA's front thread is 82mm, and my 110 XL's front thread is 67mm.

Daan Fromm's chart at Galerie Photo and the Walker Camera site say that the Schneider centre filter front thread is 86mm. If they're wrong, you could help by setting them straight, maybe even in a less snippy tone:

https://galerie-photo.com/center-fil...at-lenses.html
http://walkercameras.com/lenses/s_center_IIIb.html

[Mal Paso]

If you're going to use a centre filter, you might as well be aware of the fact that the Schneider front thread is 86mm and the Rodenstock's is 112mm.

The 115mm f6.8 Rodenstock Grandagon has a 82mm filter thread. There is an Apo Grandagon mentioned that might be the 112mm. Both were discontinued before my catalogue was printed but a 112mm center filter is mentioned along with 82mm.

According to Large Format Lenses, 2nd edition, the Caltar II-N lenses are the Apo Sironar and the Grandagon N.

[r.e.]

The 115mm f6.8 has a 82mm filter thread.

You should also set Dan Fromm straight. He thinks that the rear thread is 82mm and the front thread is 112mm. That's why centre filters are described with two numbers, in this case 82/112.

A link to Dan's article and charts is directly above your post. His article is seen, at least around here, as the most authoritative statement on the internet of centre filter specs across major lens manufacturers.

[Mal Paso]

You should also set Dan Fromm straight. He thinks that the rear thread is 82mm and the front thread is 112mm. That's why centre filters are described with two numbers, in this case 82/112.

A link to Dan's article and charts is directly above your post. His article is seen, at least around here, as the most authoritative statement on the internet of centre filter specs across manufacturers.

I think the 2 numbers were Grandagon/Apo Grandagon. The front threads of my lens are 82mm.

I never used center filters, none of the art directors complained, it had a look. Cuts down on burning in the edges. Plus that's a lot of light to lose shooting large format interiors.

[r.e.]

I think the 2 numbers were Grandagon/Apo Grandagon. The front threads of my lens are 82mm.

So you think that the two numbers refer to different versions of the lens. You certainly get points for inventiveness. Don't you think it's curious that centre filters have two numbers as a matter of course? Do they all refer to two versions of a lens? Why do none of them have three numbers? Why would apochromatic correction, by itself, have a large effect on filter size?

Do you have a centre filter for your Grandagon? If so, take a good look at it. If not, you might find it helpful to do some reading about centre filters and how they work. Also, find out what the difference in price is between 82mm filters and 112mm filters, and find out which filter makers are still making 112mm. If you use a centre filter and want to use the Lee Filter system in addition, or indeed any square filter system, you'll also discover that you're in for 150mm filters, not 100mm. There's quite the difference in cost, not to mention bulk.

I wrote post #23 simply to say that Tom should be aware of the difference between the two lenses in centre filter requirements. If one wants the option of using a centre filter, they have an impact on lens cost and system bulk. Maybe not a decisive impact, but one should at least be aware of it. I didn't realise that I would have two people in succession tell me that I don't even have the specs right, and implicitly say that Dan Fromm and Mike Walker are talking through their hats

[r.e.]

May I dare to ask another question? How do there compare to the Nikon SW 120MM?

A participant in this forum just purchased that lens. He plans to use it for 8x10. Right now, he's looking for a bag bellows for it. When that's organised, I'm hoping that he'll post one or two images here.