starting out...

[monochromeFan]

tin man, cant find that 4x5 rail, not after an hour of searching you must be using some pretty obscure terms.


Im trying hard to make a headline into understanding the various generations and styles of film holder setup for these cameras. The fact the "lower tier" makers used the older style systems for a long time after the "Top Tier" companies went to newer versions.

And the issue i have is that as nice as roll film backs are, almost every camera, at least in the press camera world, if it has a roll film back it doesnt have a ground glass for it. And thats fine IF the camera comes with the correct lens mounted so it works with the stop/cam system that lets it work with the built in range finder system.

And the special lenses arent easy to find, because with the hosreman lineup, you need a pair of stops and cams made for each focal length, if you want to stop using the ground glass.

[Tin Can]

Rail cameras are cheap

https://www.ebay.com/itm/20447029757...3ABFBMrp-ngKVj

Saww Peters Horsrman Rail Bargain

[Oren Grad]

This is getting confused. Time to re-set.

What size camera are you looking for - 4x5 or 2 1/4 x 3 1/4?

Do you want to use it as a view camera, focusing on the ground glass, or do you want to use rangefinder focusing?

[maltfalc]

Im trying hard to make a headline into understanding the various generations and styles of film holder setup for these cameras. The fact the "lower tier" makers used the older style systems for a long time after the "Top Tier" companies went to newer versions.

https://jolommencam.com/holders/

[DannL-USA]

tin man, cant find that 4x5 rail, not after an hour of searching you must be using some pretty obscure terms.


Im trying hard to make a headline into understanding the various generations and styles of film holder setup for these cameras. The fact the "lower tier" makers used the older style systems for a long time after the "Top Tier" companies went to newer versions.

And the issue i have is that as nice as roll film backs are, almost every camera, at least in the press camera world, if it has a roll film back it doesnt have a ground glass for it. And thats fine IF the camera comes with the correct lens mounted so it works with the stop/cam system that lets it work with the built in range finder system.

And the special lenses arent easy to find, because with the hosreman lineup, you need a pair of stops and cams made for each focal length, if you want to stop using the ground glass.

I think you may be jumping to conclusions without the experience under your belt. Once you have "put in the time" working with a couple of the available formats (some examples: 6x9, 2.25x3.25, half-plate, 4x5, 5x7, full-plate, 8x10, 10x12, 11x14) you'll find that the assumptions being made simply do not hold water. Example: lenses designed for 4x5 or 5x7 work great with their respective formats. Film holder sizes were standardized over a century ago. View cameras missing their focus screens are simply "incomplete cameras". So then, buy the missing focus screen when found, or buy a camera that is complete.

When I started using view cameras, I knew nothing about about them. So, I built an 8x10 camera from scratch, bellows and all, to fit the only 8x10 film holder that I owned. My 8x10 lens was the Rapid Rectilinear from a Kodak 3A Model C Folder. Since then, the herd of cameras has grown, and I love each and every one of them. Each is different, and each has it's attributes. View cameras are by far the easiest and funnest of all the cameras to use. Pick a format like 4x5 (most common), and focus on learning every aspect of that format. Then spread out from there.

Under the right conditions, I might divulge everything I know. ;-)

[monochromeFan]

Im interested in light weight. Hence my interest in the press cameras, meant to be hand held and fold up smoothly. I do admit that the big rail cameras can be had rather cheaply for the body, but the NEED of a huge tripod is not a fun one. Some sellers are listing the calumet 4x5 rail camera as being 18 pounds WITHOUT a lens, lens board, or film holders.

There ARE preffered options to the back and how it holds film.

But for a starter outer.. its rather hard to keep from getting screwed on a lens as the lenses dont say what format they are for, and the sellers dont want to say.

I ended up getting creamed on a "really nice condition, almost mint TLR" a few years ago,, beautiful exterior condition. focused fine, shutter was sticking badly. TO get it repaired correctly without destroying the leather, tripled my overal cost for getting into TLR. Hardly ever use it sadly.

Its hard to get the reading material right, but the press camera with its handholding power, and its claimed ability to use lenses with higher powers and faster shutters, in general, is nice. I plan on taking a camera with me to work every day and with the people i work with... it has to stay in my car and get damaged in summer, or be in my tiny locker under pad lock.
Ive had coworkers rearrange the items in my lunch for me. I mean, i make my dinner and the sausage is UNDER the rice, i go to eat it and the sausage is ON top of the rice, strange fingerprints from them trying to get into my phone. things like that.


I dont mind the idea of using roll film backs for it, im used to 120/220 via my mamiya 645. I have been thinking on getting myself a univeral glass carrier for my beseler 23c. I can do 2x3 negatives on it last i checked, and not need anything new.

[DannL-USA]

I now see your dilemma. You need a 4x5 Press camera with the ability to shoot 120 or 4x5 sheet film? Until you can get yourself a 4x5 enlarger, you can contact print your those 4x5 negatives. See how easy that was?! ;-) Now you need to find the right 4x5 press camera with focus screen, a 120 roll-film back, and a working lens/shutter. Shopping is the fun part. You learn as you go.

PS; I say 4x5 because the 3.25x4.25 and smaller sheet films are getting harder and harder to find. Choices are very limited.

6x9 Technical Camera options . . . (but then again there's the limited film problem)
https://www.cameraeccentric.com/stat...horseman_2.pdf
http://www.bnphoto.org/bnphoto/LFN/C..._Horseman1.htm
https://www.pacificrimcamera.com/rl/02493/02493.pdf
https://pacificrimcamera.com/rl/02491/02491.pdf

I took the Horseman 985 route myself. Also owned a 980 at one time. Both purchased from eBay sellers in Japan. Both excellent cameras. These cameras can use stops and cams. There are plenty of Roll Film holders available. 6x9 (2x3) sheet film holders are around, but harder to find.

[paulbarden]

Im interested in light weight. Hence my interest in the press cameras, meant to be hand held and fold up smoothly. I do admit that the big rail cameras can be had rather cheaply for the body, but the NEED of a huge tripod is not a fun one. Some sellers are listing the calumet 4x5 rail camera as being 18 pounds WITHOUT a lens, lens board, or film holders.

There ARE preffered options to the back and how it holds film.

But for a starter outer.. its rather hard to keep from getting screwed on a lens as the lenses dont say what format they are for, and the sellers dont want to say.

I ended up getting creamed on a "really nice condition, almost mint TLR" a few years ago,, beautiful exterior condition. focused fine, shutter was sticking badly. TO get it repaired correctly without destroying the leather, tripled my overal cost for getting into TLR. Hardly ever use it sadly.

Its hard to get the reading material right, but the press camera with its handholding power, and its claimed ability to use lenses with higher powers and faster shutters, in general, is nice. I plan on taking a camera with me to work every day and with the people i work with... it has to stay in my car and get damaged in summer, or be in my tiny locker under pad lock.
Ive had coworkers rearrange the items in my lunch for me. I mean, i make my dinner and the sausage is UNDER the rice, i go to eat it and the sausage is ON top of the rice, strange fingerprints from them trying to get into my phone. things like that.


I dont mind the idea of using roll film backs for it, im used to 120/220 via my mamiya 645. I have been thinking on getting myself a univeral glass carrier for my beseler 23c. I can do 2x3 negatives on it last i checked, and not need anything new.

Have you read any of the reviews and guide articles archived on this forum?? Here's a beginner's guide to lenses for 4x5 and another. It doesn't get much clearer than that. There are scores of tutorial materials right here on this forum. I suggest you do some reading. The volume of invaluable information here is extensive (go to Equipment reviews towards the bottom of the page), and very useful.

Few sellers are going to tell you what format the lens/shutter they have for sale is appropriate for - it's up to the buyer to have some understanding of what they are looking at/for. The "standard" focal length for 4x5 is 150mm, but anything between 120mm (mildly wide angle) and 180mm (mildly telephoto) is considered "normal" for 4x5. So, you will pretty much know what you're looking at if you find a lens of about 150mm in a shutter for sale. If you aren't absolutely certain it's appropriate for your camera, then ask someone here to review it for you - it's that simple.

But of course, the best option is to buy a camera complete with a lens. There are thousands of Graflex cameras (with lens) out there for sale. If you're really worried you'll end up with a sh*tty camera that doesn't work, then spend a bit extra and buy from a camera shop that 1) inspects and services their used equipment before selling it and 2) guarantees what they sell. Blue Moon Camera in PDX is one such shop, and they sell a variety of Graflexes.

As for weight, the average Graflex weighs between 4.5 and 6 pounds, sans lens/shutter, depending on which model.

[monochromeFan]

and studying photographs has been more helpful with figuring out the "better" lens length for me to think about. Overall I seem to like the 100-135mm portraits i see online.

Normally im a telephoto kid for the 35mm 75-210 or 100-300 is my preference. But a massive amount of smashing good work with 100-135 lenses for 4x5 thankfully.

[B.S.Kumar]

Wait a couple of weeks (30 days for new members) and you'll be able to access the Buy/Sell forum on this site. You'll have a wide range of cameras, lenses and film holders from which to choose.
In the meanwhile, as Paul suggests above, read.

Kumar