hello here

[monochromeFan]

Bored person with many questions.

lI started shooting color film, in 2019. And when the cost i paid at that time to purchase film, mail it to a lab, and pay for the development and then return postage equaled the price of a used digital camera at BH... i bought one and stopped using color film. Sure i have some in a commercial freezer.. but i never see myself using it.

So i did the digital thing, thought i was happy and kept going. I tried the monochrome setting, was unhappy. Dusted my film cameras off and started shooting black and white. Unfortunately i didnt have much to go with for education in film. Most of the old books you can find online for free were written in an era where concise was a dirty word.

[Duolab123]

Bored person with many questions.

lI started shooting color film, in 2019. And when the cost i paid at that time to purchase film, mail it to a lab, and pay for the development and then return postage equaled the price of a used digital camera at BH... i bought one and stopped using color film. Sure i have some in a commercial freezer.. but i never see myself using it.

So i did the digital thing, thought i was happy and kept going. I tried the monochrome setting, was unhappy. Dusted my film cameras off and started shooting black and white. Unfortunately i didnt have much to go with for education in film. Most of the old books you can find online for free were written in an era where concise was a dirty word.

Welcome to the large format photography forum. Lots of information here. Welcome!

[Tin Can]

My vision has been very poor since birth

I did not speak until 4

We all differ

joy is art

[jnantz]

Bored person with many questions.

<...> Unfortunately i didnt have much to go with for education in film. Most of the old books you can find online for free were written in an era where concise was a dirty word.

not free but found on the auction site or the big bookstore ( for not too much scratch ) you might look for the Henry Horenstein book called basic black and white photography. I wouldn't bother with the zone system or any of that, just get used to learning how your use of a camera to control the light hitting the film works, and how developing the negative changes depending on the exposure and how you develop the film. if you have a 35mm camera, you can do this easy by bracketing exposure on a handful of short rolls, and then bracketing development to see how your negatives scan and print ( or print in a darkroom ). the Horenstein book also includes photographs of typical mistakes made so you can ID and fix what you did wrong. photography has never really been concise, it's forgiving ... that's the beauty of it.

[Doremus Scudder]

... Most of the old books you can find online for free were written in an era where concise was a dirty word.

I might submit that most of the "new" literature lacks detail and adequate explanation There's a lot to know in order to do black-and-white film photography well, especially if you are making prints in the darkroom. None of it is really difficult, though; it's just a lot. Take your time and don't expect to know everything so quickly.

That said, what is lacking these days is a good methodology for getting started and learning the ropes as you go. You don't need to master the Zone System or be an expert in photo chemistry, etc., in order to get going and make good photographs.

From your other posts, it looks like you are interested in the Zone System, especially for roll film. See my post there for a quick-starter guide.

Best, and have fun!

Doremus

[Ulophot]

MonochormeFan, welcome. You are getting lots of answer to your two posts, so I'll not add further except to add my "vote" to two others (not in any way slighting the other contributions posted).

My experience goes back to 1968 in high school. Over the following years of learning and practicing my craft, overlapping my beginning to look at the Zone System, David Vestal's The Craft of Photography was my go-to. Though I no longer own a copy, I recall well many of his illustrations, including a whole series on what under-exposed and underdeveloped negatives -- and vice versa -- look like, as well as a host of other problems that can appear in negatives and how to identify them. For anyone starting out in processing without an experienced, competent, in-person teacher, they can be invaluable. Used copies abound for very little, or you could get it through a library. But I'd get one, if I were you. You can learn a great deal from it. Good teaching is never just, "Do this"; it always includes, "If you did this and this happened, here's what may have caused (or did cause) the problem. Essential.

Second, I'll add my vote to Doremus's counsel. A look at his website will demonstrate his ability, and he does teach, as well. Again, I slight no one else. This forum has a phenomenal membership with seasoned and expert knowledge in all sorts of fields, and is well moderated. In any case, as I indicate above, while there's absolutely nothing wrong in starting with the Zone System (and I find Ansel Adams to be an excellent writer and teacher -- still, after some 50 years studying him), getting some basics under your belt will serve you well in approaching the Zone System.

[monochromeFan]

not free but found on the auction site or the big bookstore ( for not too much scratch ) you might look for the Henry Horenstein book called basic black and white photography. I wouldn't bother with the zone system or any of that, just get used to learning how your use of a camera to control the light hitting the film works, and how developing the negative changes depending on the exposure and how you develop the film. if you have a 35mm camera, you can do this easy by bracketing exposure on a handful of short rolls, and then bracketing development to see how your negatives scan and print ( or print in a darkroom ). the Horenstein book also includes photographs of typical mistakes made so you can ID and fix what you did wrong. photography has never really been concise, it's forgiving ... that's the beauty of it.

I do own the Horenstien book, the only good thing about it is the section of bad negative problems. The causes he states, are relatively spot on, but i have found similar defects in negatives caused by other things, all learning.

That book, and the David Vestal book i feel are the main causes of the problems i have had with my black and white photography. The more i rely on horenstein, the WORSE my negatives turn out.. and the more i follow vestals advice, the negatives just dont do well in scenes with major differences between hi lites and shadows.

[monochromeFan]

I might submit that most of the "new" literature lacks detail and adequate explanation There's a lot to know in order to do black-and-white film photography well, especially if you are making prints in the darkroom. None of it is really difficult, though; it's just a lot. Take your time and don't expect to know everything so quickly.

That said, what is lacking these days is a good methodology for getting started and learning the ropes as you go. You don't need to master the Zone System or be an expert in photo chemistry, etc., in order to get going and make good photographs.

From your other posts, it looks like you are interested in the Zone System, especially for roll film. See my post there for a quick-starter guide.

Best, and have fun!

Doremus

I think that my 2nd biggest mistake when starting out with film film in general, i just intended to shoot, develop, and scan. The addition of my enlarger really taught me that what i THOUGHT were good negatives, were truly crap once put under the condenser.

And my goal is to make a good print, and i want to make good negatives because i have had far too many issues with creating a good negative. Sure, i dont mind doing test strips on a negative that have me using a final burn time of 5 seconds at f/11 in order to get texture on a leaf in direct sunlight.

[Joseph Kashi]

I do own the Horenstien book, the only good thing about it is the section of bad negative problems. The causes he states, are relatively spot on, but i have found similar defects in negatives caused by other things, all learning.

That book, and the David Vestal book i feel are the main causes of the problems i have had with my black and white photography. The more i rely on horenstein, the WORSE my negatives turn out.. and the more i follow vestals advice, the negatives just dont do well in scenes with major differences between hi lites and shadows.

I took a weekend workshop with Mr. Horenstein some years ago and he told the rather humorous story about how his book evolved very quickly, so I'm not surprised to hear that you are having difficulty with your negatives. In any event, the materials upon which the book was based are not really available anymore. That would similarly affect how current the advice might be.

[monochromeFan]

I took a weekend workshop with Mr. Horenstein some years ago and he told the rather humorous story about how his book evolved very quickly, so I'm not surprised to hear that you are having difficulty with your negatives. In any event, the materials upon which the book was based are not really available anymore. That would similarly affect how current the advice might be.

If the materials the book is based upon are not really available anymore, why is it such a popular suggestion to people trying to learn film? Its sort of like telling someone to learn to drive a manual transmission by driving a Model A Ford....