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Thread: hello here

  1. #11
    multiplex
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    Re: hello here

    Quote Originally Posted by monochromeFan View Post
    If the materials the book is based upon are not really available anymore, why is it such a popular suggestion to people trying to learn film? Its sort of like telling someone to learn to drive a manual transmission by driving a Model A Ford....
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    sorry for being so clueless ( and for seeming snarky ). I was just thumbing through my copy, what are the materials that aren't available anymore, and the bad advice he gives? generally speaking the use of film, paper light and photo chemistry ( and a camera ) is what his book teaches, and these materials seem to be available ...nothing has really changed regarding how they work ( for the last 100+ years ). the book is what a lot of people suggest because its pretty straightforward and every high school and college photo department used to use this book as a beginner's how-to manual for photo 1 and 2 classes for decades. I guess the difference is when it is/was a manual for a class, the teachers were always there and answered any questions when they come up... and students are all using the same film 35mm manual cameras, rc paper and probably sprint chemistry, not pyro developer or 90 year old crystalized rodinal, glass plates from 1900, or something moldy 1960s tri-x and poly contrast RC paper found for cheeps in a 2nd hand shop and a camera whose shutter hasnt' been CLAd since purchase from someone cleaning out an estate sale.. and sadly the only way to get questions answered is long distance via text+email ...
    there's a lot of stuff on the internet ( videos &c ) people publish that is really unhelpful and unnecessary and overcomplicate what seems to be a simple process ... usually bracketing and test strips and making a print and viewing it is all one needs to do ( which seems to be what my copy talks about ) not overly complicated log charts and densitometry work to see if the black is really dark enough black, and heady zone system stuff ..

    if your local area has a photo class at a community college it would probably worth its weight in gold to go and take a hands on class with a teacher who can answer any questions you may have in real-time. or better yet, if you have found a photographer online whose work you admire ( who does well what you want to do ) maybe contact them via email and see if they will give you a 1 on 1 workshop to help you get over some of the early stumbling blocks you have encountered .. who knows maybe it is just 1 or 2 tiny things you are doing wrong that you haven't noticed you are doing, and when you realize it you'll have an "AH HA" moment and be doing what you want a little bit better ..

  2. #12

    Re: hello here

    Quote Originally Posted by jnantz View Post
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    sorry for being so clueless ( and for seeming snarky ). I was just thumbing through my copy, what are the materials that aren't available anymore, and the bad advice he gives? generally speaking the use of film, paper light and photo chemistry ( and a camera ) is what his book teaches, and these materials seem to be available ...nothing has really changed regarding how they work ( for the last 100+ years ). the book is what a lot of people suggest because its pretty straightforward and every high school and college photo department used to use this book as a beginner's how-to manual for photo 1 and 2 classes for decades. I guess the difference is when it is/was a manual for a class, the teachers were always there and answered any questions when they come up... and students are all using the same film 35mm manual cameras, rc paper and probably sprint chemistry, not pyro developer or 90 year old crystalized rodinal, glass plates from 1900, or something moldy 1960s tri-x and poly contrast RC paper found for cheeps in a 2nd hand shop and a camera whose shutter hasnt' been CLAd since purchase from someone cleaning out an estate sale.. and sadly the only way to get questions answered is long distance via text+email ...
    there's a lot of stuff on the internet ( videos &c ) people publish that is really unhelpful and unnecessary and overcomplicate what seems to be a simple process ... usually bracketing and test strips and making a print and viewing it is all one needs to do ( which seems to be what my copy talks about ) not overly complicated log charts and densitometry work to see if the black is really dark enough black, and heady zone system stuff ..

    if your local area has a photo class at a community college it would probably worth its weight in gold to go and take a hands on class with a teacher who can answer any questions you may have in real-time. or better yet, if you have found a photographer online whose work you admire ( who does well what you want to do ) maybe contact them via email and see if they will give you a 1 on 1 workshop to help you get over some of the early stumbling blocks you have encountered .. who knows maybe it is just 1 or 2 tiny things you are doing wrong that you haven't noticed you are doing, and when you realize it you'll have an "AH HA" moment and be doing what you want a little bit better ..
    The educational system is not worthwhile where i live everythign i can find is DIGITAL... and the ones claiming to teach film all list themselves as "been teaching photographer for 10+ years and have a college degree in photography" but they list their personal skill level as BEGINNER...

  3. #13

    Re: hello here

    Quote Originally Posted by Doremus Scudder View Post
    I might submit that most of the "new" literature lacks detail and adequate explanation There's a lot to know in order to do black-and-white film photography well, especially if you are making prints in the darkroom. None of it is really difficult, though; it's just a lot. Take your time and don't expect to know everything so quickly.

    That said, what is lacking these days is a good methodology for getting started and learning the ropes as you go. You don't need to master the Zone System or be an expert in photo chemistry, etc., in order to get going and make good photographs.

    From your other posts, it looks like you are interested in the Zone System, especially for roll film. See my post there for a quick-starter guide.

    Best, and have fun!

    Doremus
    sent you a PM

  4. #14
    multiplex
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    Re: hello here

    Quote Originally Posted by monochromeFan View Post
    The educational system is not worthwhile where i live everythign i can find is DIGITAL... and the ones claiming to teach film all list themselves as "been teaching photographer for 10+ years and have a college degree in photography" but they list their personal skill level as BEGINNER...
    f you have a mini lab or photo store near you maybe they offer weekend classes or know people that do. I think on the harman tech / Ilford website and Emulsive there is a listing of all the film labs. there might also be a listing for a community darkroom in your area as well.

  5. #15

    Re: hello here

    Quote Originally Posted by jnantz View Post
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    sorry for being so clueless ( and for seeming snarky ). I was just thumbing through my copy, what are the materials that aren't available anymore, and the bad advice he gives? generally speaking the use of film, paper light and photo chemistry ( and a camera ) is what his book teaches, and these materials seem to be available ...nothing has really changed regarding how they work ( for the last 100+ years ). the book is what a lot of people suggest because its pretty straightforward and every high school and college photo department used to use this book as a beginner's how-to manual for photo 1 and 2 classes for decades. r ..
    I was attempting, apparently unsuccessfully, to avoid dissing the author while suggesting that other materials might be more useful in troubleshooting the OP's problems.

  6. #16
    multiplex
    Join Date
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    Re: hello here

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Kashi View Post
    I was attempting, apparently unsuccessfully, to avoid dissing the author while suggesting that other materials might be more useful in troubleshooting the OP's problems.
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    naah you were successful !
    the problem with photography is it looks and sounds easy but it's not as easy as it seems ..
    and there's a lot of salesman selling stuff to make it seem easy. takes a lot of practice, like everything else.

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