What, if any, are the drawbacks to owning a Kodak Master View 8x10?

[Andy F]

Hi Tin Can,

I would love to see your DIY cameras.

-Andrew

[John Kasaian]

I parted with my 8x10 KMV because lens boards were near impossible to find. That's the only issue I had with it, also IIRC, the lens board didn't lend itself to being stowed in reverse so that the camera didn't lend itself to be carried with a larger lens in situ This was a long time ago and other KMV shooters would be better able to authoritatively comment. Other than that, it's a great design. If it comes with an assortment of lens boards drilled for the shutters I'm planning to use on her or if somebody is making new lens boards available, I'd jump on a good example if I were in the market.

[WBYonder]

I have a KMV and had SK Grimes make a KMV board-to-Canham/Toyo adapter. Works great, worth every penny.

[dave_whatever]

Hi Paul,

First, I would like to say your images are F###ING AMAZING! Second, I am so glad you wrote me back. I could not find anything but complaints about the intrepid. I tried to do some research on the Intrepid. I was looking at the new 8x10 black. I was thinking I have he calumet C-1 for traveling from home to home or to keep in the back of a my car and I could use the intrepid for longer trips. I wrote intrepid and asked them to point me to an independent review but I was just told that I would be "able to find reviews online". Not the best customer service. So you are the first person I know of to say that they like the Intrepid. Mat Marrash from Large Format Fridays was quite down on it. He had issues with it having a soft focus caused by the back of the camera being off. That is why I was looking at the Kodak Masterview.

So let me ask you, do you ever have any issues with the Intrepid? Does it shake in the breeze because it is too light or in any way cause your images to come out with problems? Do you feel like warping might become an issue? How do you travel with it? Are you ever afraid it will break in your backpack? What is the glass like? Do you need to use a fresnel screen? How are you locking it down on a tripod. I just ordered a INNOREL RT90C in prediction of needing something for a heavy camera. It is 6lb. Do you think I could get away with something lighter? Also, you seem happy with all of the bellows movements are you satisfied with the focusing system?

-Andrew

Apologies for chiming in on this unannounced, but I bought (and then sent back) the latest Intrepid 10x8 last autumn, so this info may be useful to you.

Firstly the good stuff; the weight is good if not unbeatable, the rigidity of the rear and the focus track seemed good. I never shot any film with it but getting film holders in and out seemed OK. Bellows seemed fine.

The 'OK' stuff - the general fit and finish was OK, about what you'd expect for the money, and the smoothness of the focus was OK - not as good or as nice as a Chamonix of similar design, but OK. The 3D printed plastic of the knobs was also ok if not that confidence inspiring. Ground glass seemed OK. Customer service was fine (I'm in the UK so that helped in terms of ordering and return). There were marks on the metalwork that you'd not expect of a brand new camera though.

Now for the bad stuff: the fresnel was terrible/unusable, wrong focal length entirely, and having read a thread on here after getting rid of the camera it turns out they had a faulty batch. The front standard horizontal bubble level was miles off compared to the rear standard level. Also the model has had zero detents on the front tilt added as a new feature. However they were unusable. For a start the middle of the zero position on the front tilt was out of square with the rest of the camera. Also the "zero' had too much slop in it generally, so depending which direction you were approaching it from it was clicking in at a different point. So not only was it not zero, but it also had a lot of slack in it too. So arguably worse than just having no detent.

The front standard in general was a bit of a disaster really. Now I'm a rock climber of 25+ years so I have pretty strong fingers and hands, but I couldn't do up the front tilt knobs tight enough to actually lock it down. It felt like the knobs would snap before it locked down. The front swing single knob was the same deal, it couldn't be tightened down enough to actually lock the swing down properly. Also, the entire front standard actually flexed and bent when pushed, even without a lens on, the like of which I've never seen before.

Also at the time the website claimed the camera folded down to only 75mm deep, which made it sound very compact - however it didn't, and was closer to 100mm depth when folded.

So yeah, I sent it back. I know 10x8 isn't a cheap do, and there's a real dearth of cheaper options to get into it on the camera side of things. But still, personally I'd only inflict that intrepid upon myself if I was concerned with weight, and weight only, or use it only occasionally. I've used enough 5x4 cameras to know the sorts of thing that would piss me off about a camera, and the stuff you can forget about once you've gotten used to it, and the intrepid had to much of the former and not enough of the latter. Interestingly when I raised these issues with the manufacturer I was just offered a straight refund, there was no suggestion that I'd somehow got a bad camera, so I expect they are basically all like this and they are just banking on a lot of users being first timers to large format and now knowing that a front standard isn't supposed to flail around like a car radio aerial. Maybe I was expecting too much, I don't know, but overall it was just really disappointing and felt like the marketing output and the branding and website was perhaps over promising and underdelivering. Each to their own, and good on 'em for bringing the entry bar down if you're not that picky.

The other thing with these Intrepids is updated models come out with regularity to put most digital cameras to shame (almost like you're paying to beta test their products! Perish the thought...). So they don't hold a ton of value, and as time passes and newer models come out the value drops and drops. Which is fine assuming you are 100% happy with the camera and never need to sell it, and you factor this in to your cheapness equation. Meanwhile, stuff like used Deardorffs, Wistas, Tachiharas and Chamonix 8x10s seem to be going up in value.... You pays your money you takes your choice.

[Drew Wiley]

I sure wouldn't buy a Kodak Master View for sake of a field camera. I'd save up my shekels for an 8x10 Chamonix or Canham wooden folder. I personally use an 8x10 Phillips, the patriarch of stable lightweight folders. I've sure taken it some steep places.

[Thom Bennett]

re: lens boards for the KMV - S.K. Grimes made me a Technika adapter board based on an original KMV board that lives on the camera and all my lenses are mounted on readily available Technika boards. Did the same with the Korona 7x17 so some of my lenses are used on both cameras.

[Tin Can]

I consider the Metal Kodak Master View 8X10 a very exotic camera

The GG is beyond Rare and irreplaceable by anyone

If dropped it will be very difficult to fix the thin metal

I loved it for many reasons, but only in studio with a good tripod

I traded it on this forum 'Even Steven'

I made a lens board adapter

[Serge S]

I sure wouldn't buy a Kodak Master View for sake of a field camera. I'd save up my shekels for an 8x10 Chamonix or Canham wooden folder. I personally use an 8x10 Phillips, the patriarch of stable lightweight folders. I've sure taken it some steep places.

There is also the Ritter 8x10 - a very light camera...around 6lbs if I recall.

[paulbarden]

Hi Paul,

First, I would like to say your images are F###ING AMAZING! Second, I am so glad you wrote me back. I could not find anything but complaints about the intrepid. I tried to do some research on the Intrepid. I was looking at the new 8x10 black. I was thinking I have he calumet C-1 for traveling from home to home or to keep in the back of a my car and I could use the intrepid for longer trips. I wrote intrepid and asked them to point me to an independent review but I was just told that I would be "able to find reviews online". Not the best customer service. So you are the first person I know of to say that they like the Intrepid. Mat Marrash from Large Format Fridays was quite down on it. He had issues with it having a soft focus caused by the back of the camera being off. That is why I was looking at the Kodak Masterview.

So let me ask you, do you ever have any issues with the Intrepid? Does it shake in the breeze because it is too light or in any way cause your images to come out with problems? Do you feel like warping might become an issue? How do you travel with it? Are you ever afraid it will break in your backpack? What is the glass like? Do you need to use a fresnel screen? How are you locking it down on a tripod. I just ordered a INNOREL RT90C in prediction of needing something for a heavy camera. It is 6lb. Do you think I could get away with something lighter? Also, you seem happy with all of the bellows movements are you satisfied with the focusing system?

-Andrew

Hi Andy.
You have to keep in mind that the people who are most motivated to post reviews on the web about things they've bought are the ones that are unhappy about their purchase. Most of the ones who actually like what they've got don't bother posting reviews (unless that's their job). So if it seems that the majority of comments about the Intrepid are displeased with the camera, it's - in part - because the unhappy customers are going to be the loudest as well.

That's not to say that Intrepid produces a spectacular camera 100% of the time, and flawed examples never reach customers, because that's not true. My first Intrepid 8x10 (the very first version) had a serious problem with the focusing gear system, and Intrepid had to send me a new base bed to replace it. Dave's remarks yesterday clearly illustrate the manufacturing faults that sometimes manifest in the cameras Intrepid ships, as well as the design/build quality issues. The bottom line (for me) is that it's a worthwhile camera to own and use as long as you're not comparing it to a camera that literally costs ten times as much. (how is that a useful comparison??) No, it's not a Chamonix or a Tachihara or a Deardorff. I don't expect it to be. Anyway, let me answer some of your questions.

Does it shake in the breeze? No. Never had that issue. However, I don't take my cameras out in unreasonably windy conditions because those conditions are likely to induce camera shake no matter what camera/tripod you are using. I like to work in still conditions because I am often working in "reciprocity territory".

I've owned four Intrepid cameras over the years (I sold my original 8x10, but still have the first gen 4x5 and the first gen 5x7) and none of them has had warping issues. The film holders fit properly and everything works as it should. I've not had any issues with focus being incorrect because of manufacturing faults.

I carry my 8x0 Intrepid in a canvas backpack, with 3 or 4 film holders, a shutter/lens wrapped in my darkcloth, plus meter and loupe. It all fits in a standard backpack. I use a plexiglas insert to protect the ground glass when doing this. I have yet to break anything when carrying the Intrepid in this manner.

About the ground glass: It's fine. It does the job well. It's not especially thick or strong glass (I broke one once by unintentionally pressing on one corner of it when folding up the camera: entirely my fault) but it does what it's supposed to and is easy to see focus on. I did have my newest 8x10 fitted with the Fresnel lens, and I have to agree with Dave: it's pretty bad. I had a conversation with Intrepid to determine whether mine was one of the defective ones (It has a serious bias to the inner 50%) but they assured me it was not. So, I wouldn't have bothered to have the Fresnel installed if I'd realized how bad it was. Waste of $$, that - it doesn't really help.

How do I "lock it down" on the tripod? I use an old school Manfrotto with a single screw post to attach the camera. I tighten it down finger tight and then get on with business. It's a medium weight tripod of no special design - just a standard threaded post and a 2X3 inch platform to rest the camera base on. I'm not familiar with the tripod you've chosen, but it appears to review well. Note that it weighs 6.5 pounds, and some reviewers have referred to it as "Neither a hiking nor a travel tripod", because of its weight. I guess it depends what you think an appropriate tripod weight is, for carrying around - I'm sure my Manfrotto weighs at least 6 pounds, so...

I have no complaints with the bellows, movements, or focusing system. The auger style focusing mechanism can be tedious if you're used to something else (The rack and pinion on my Deardorff seems easier to use, but not all would agree) I won't say that people haven't received cameras with manufacturing defects or mechanical faults, but I wouldn't let that deter me from getting one. Mine is serving me well and in spite of its obvious "budget friendly" design and materials, it's a fine camera. I know you said "I want to own something I would be happy with for years to come" but it might be in your best interest to adjust that thinking a bit, and see the Intrepid as an "entry level" first camera - to learn on and use freely without worrying about potentially damaging it through use (I take the Intrepid to places I wouldn't dare take the Deardorff). You stated at the outset that cost, and weight were important considerations. Many people get into 8x10 photography, buy a heavy camera, and quickly discover that carrying forty-plus pounds of equipment is ruining the experience for them, so they regret their choices.

I disagree with Dave about the resale value of the Intrepid. I sold mine for half of what I paid for it, and mine was well used (worn) but worked properly. Getting half of that investment back was perfectly reasonable to me. No, an Intrepid isn't going to hold its value, but I wouldn't expect that. It was inexpensive to start with!

Anyway, it's worth keeping in mind that some photographers buy the Intrepid and expect it to compare favorably to cameras that cost ten times as much, and that's not the way to look at it, IMO. If you have owned a Chamonix or a Wista or (fill in the blank) and you want the Intrepid to match one of those, you're going to be disappointed.

[Jim Jones]

My 8x10 Kodak D2 kit, assembled many decades ago, is self-contained in an original 8.25x19.5x27 inch case. This includes the camera, 3 lenses, 6 film holders, and a Kodak Crown #3 tripod. It weighs 42 pounds. Of course the tripod is broken down into 4 pieces for storage, and must be unfolded and assembled for use. Little Edward Weston managed well with a heavier kit. My 100-year-old Kodak RB Cycle Graphic 5x7 camera came in a 5.75x10.5x16 inch case and weighs 19 pounds without its four pound Kodak Crown #2 tripod. The name RB means reversible back, and compact enough to be carried on bicycles. In comparison, the digital kit this 91-year-old man now exclusively uses weighs 6.5 pounds without it's equally heavy Tiltall tripod.