Vignetting 4x5 300mm

[Mark J]

The Nikkor M is a Tessar-type. It's a modern variant of the very excellent 4-element design by Paul Rudolph at Zeiss from 1902. It doesn't have as much angle coverage as a Plasmat, but this doesn't matter since the 300mm Nikkor will cover 8x10" at infinity. Its performance close up will be slightly inferior to a plasmat eg. Apo-Symmar, but still pretty good down to 1:5 or so.

[Lachlan 717]

To bring this back onto topic:

Open the aperture up and project an outside image onto a darkened inside wall.

At least this will either rule in or out an image circle issue, as this lens should easily cover 8x10”, let alone 4x5”…

[B.S.Kumar]

Hello and thanks for the replies,

I bought the lens at a physical store where I go often.
They work with all kind large format cameras and photographic procedures, collodion, film, super 8...
The lens seems to be in order (see pics attached) but it's a simple lens without shutter.
Attachment 242503Attachment 242504Attachment 242505

Keeping your remarks in mind I maybe found the problem. And its a bit of a stupid thing...
This lens rear element is too wide for the SINAR copal DB shutter I work with (the 1st model, the green one).
I've discussed the problem when I bought it and we, me and the guy from the store, came up with a solution to avoid buying another shutter, specifically for this lens.
I've placed the shutter in between the two bellows...
If this is the problem, either I buy another shutter or I use the bag bellows in place of the normal one an keep it as closed as possible.
I don't have the camera with me, but here's a sketch.
Attachment 242506

Could this be the problem?

There is something else going on. I have a Norma shutter listed for sale on the forum, and I measured the shutter diameter to be 75mm - the same as a later DB shutter. https://www.pacificrimcamera.com/rl/02096/02096.pdf where it says on page 2: "The 75 mm clearance diameter of the shutter takes lenses with rear mounts up to 82 mm."

Kumar

[Alan Klein]

The Nikkor M is a Tessar-type. It's a modern variant of the very excellent 4-element design by Paul Rudolph at Zeiss from 1902. It doesn't have as much angle coverage as a Plasmat, but this doesn't matter since the 300mm Nikkor will cover 8x10" at infinity. Its performance close up will be slightly inferior to a plasmat eg. Apo-Symmar, but still pretty good down to 1:5 or so.

Now you have me really confused. So my lens is a third variant not yet discussed. It's neither a telephoto nor a plasmat, but a Tessar. What's a Tessar? (My lens is a Nikon Nikkor M 300mm F9 Copal 1 Shutter Large Format Lens on a 4x5 Chamonix 45H-1 field camera that has a max bellows draw of 350mm. ) The tables say it has a 325mm circle. Isn;t that that enough to prevent vignetting on a 4x5 field camera using minimum field tilting?

What do you mean that its slightly inferior to a apo-symmar. In what way? What does 1:5 mean?

[Daniel Unkefer]

I'm not familiar with modern Sinar Shutters. I do have six Olde Green Norma Shutters, so quite familiar with those.

How close is the rear mount of the lens to the blades of the shutter? As you pull the lens forward of the shutter, it will cause BARREL VIGNETTING. Sinar clearly stated that the shutter opening will vignette, the optimum setups is -1mm- from back of the lens to the shutter blades. Can modern DB lenses even be used properly with Norma Shutters? How would you set the aperture on the lens?? I know there is a knob on the modern shutter to set the f/stop. My guess is that you have a total mismatch between Olde Norma and Newer Sinar. Not everything was compatible.

I suppose the DB lens could be cannibalized and remounted to work with the Norma Shutter. That would be a lot of work.

Another good option would be a 300 F9 Apo Ronar on a flat Norma board. Not expensive in barrel.

[Mark J]

Alan, I'll start another thread for your questions. Give me 2-3 hours, busy right now.

[B.S.Kumar]

I'm not familiar with modern Sinar Shutters. I do have six Olde Green Norma Shutters, so quite familiar with those.

How close is the rear mount of the lens to the blades of the shutter? As you pull the lens forward of the shutter, it will cause BARREL VIGNETTING. Sinar clearly stated that the shutter opening will vignette, the optimum setups is -1mm- from back of the lens to the shutter blades. Can modern DB lenses even be used properly with Norma Shutters? How would you set the aperture on the lens?? I know there is a knob on the modern shutter to set the f/stop. My guess is that you have a total mismatch between Olde Norma and Newer Sinar. Not everything was compatible.

I suppose the DB lens could be cannibalized and remounted to work with the Norma Shutter. That would be a lot of work.

The OP's lens is in a DBM mount, which allows setting the aperture on the lens. There is a red button on the protrusion on the lens barrel that permits setting the aperture.

Kumar

[Daniel Unkefer]

The OP's lens is in a DBM mount, which allows setting the aperture on the lens. There is a red button on the protrusion on the lens barrel that permits setting the aperture.

Kumar

Thanks Kumar!

Can you attach that DB lens directly to a Norma with Norma Shutter attached? I would guess not, because he added the bag bellows in front of the shutter., moving the rear cell forward caused barrel vignetting?? Sure looks like it to me. Incompatible vintages of Sinar?

[B.S.Kumar]

All lenses in DB and DBM mounts can be physically mounted on any Sinar camera, including the Norma. DB lenses can be used only fully wide open with a Norma shutter because the shutter lacks the pin that engages with the aperture coupler on the back of the DB lens board. DBM lenses can be used by setting the aperture manually.

My guess is that the lens may not be mounted in the correct lens board. I can't think of any other reason for the vignetting. Rodenstock's data says the rear lens barrel has an 80mm diameter, which is below the 82mm limit given in the shutter manual.

Kumar