Nikon 300mm F9 M

[Doremus Scudder]

4x5 film moves around in the holder, even new ones?

Alan,

If you take some time next time when loading your holder, you can see that you can move the film around a bit along the short axix with your fingertip; the fit can't be too tight or you wouldn't be able to load the holder. After closing the flap, the same is true along the long axis. Take a loaded holder and shake it around next to your ear. You'll be able to hear the film moving around.

So, it's always a good idea to tap the bottom of your holder (whichever side that is, long or short) against the palm of your hand just before inserting it in the camera to "seat" the film so it doesn't shift during exposure.

If you don't, and use longer exposure times, the film can slip down during exposure resulting is an overlapping double image. (Don't ask me how I know...)

And, if you point the camera down significantly (think photographing a floor), the film can bow out present a curved surface to the lens.

Astrophotographers, who use really, really long exposures often ensure against film movement by using adhesives or a vacuum holder. As the film format gets larger, these problems become worse, but don't think 4x5 film is immune.

However, if you tap your holders and take reasonable care, then you shouldn't have problems.

Best,

Doremus

[Mark J]

I'm just confused about how you're going to do astrophotography, on film, with a lens that starts at f/9 and isn't properly sharp till at least f/16 ? ....

[tgtaylor]

See https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/4...rophotography/ for example.

I also have a 300mm f5.6 Nikkor-W which weighs in at 1250gms. The combined weight would still be within payload limit of the tracker so I'll definitely try that lens also. Both lenses have wide 8x10 image circles so on 4x5 film you are recording the centermost portion of that circle and doesn't need to be stopped down, just focused correctly. At least that is what I am thinking at the moment.

[Drew Wiley]

Yeah; but will your field camera front standard hold that load stable without vibration? Besides, I think you'd find a Nikkor M or especially some process lens to be much better corrected. The best "tele" photographer I ever knew in a technical sense used a 360/9 Apo Nikkor graphics lens on a heavy Toyo 8X10 camera, with either a P67 or some kind of Nikon 35mm camera at the film plane. I have one of those lenses, and no general-purpose plasmat comes close. In fact, you'd achieve optimization with the process variety as wide as f/11, while you'd need to be even further down with a draft horse size 360 f/5.6 plasmat.

It's fun to tinker. But since the 300 EDIF P67 comes into its own critically even as wide as f/4, you're looking at a tremendous difference in exposure times.

[Mark J]

I never tried larger-format Astro myself, but back in the day when I was mad keen about astronomy and just getting into optical design ( mid-80's ) , the standard approach for that was to get a Kodak Aero-Ektar and use it at about f/4. Then there was hydrogen-soaking Tech Pan to increase its sensitivity...... !

[Alan Klein]

Alan,

If you take some time next time when loading your holder, you can see that you can move the film around a bit along the short axix with your fingertip; the fit can't be too tight or you wouldn't be able to load the holder. After closing the flap, the same is true along the long axis. Take a loaded holder and shake it around next to your ear. You'll be able to hear the film moving around.

So, it's always a good idea to tap the bottom of your holder (whichever side that is, long or short) against the palm of your hand just before inserting it in the camera to "seat" the film so it doesn't shift during exposure.

If you don't, and use longer exposure times, the film can slip down during exposure resulting is an overlapping double image. (Don't ask me how I know...)

And, if you point the camera down significantly (think photographing a floor), the film can bow out present a curved surface to the lens.

Astrophotographers, who use really, really long exposures often ensure against film movement by using adhesives or a vacuum holder. As the film format gets larger, these problems become worse, but don't think 4x5 film is immune.

However, if you tap your holders and take reasonable care, then you shouldn't have problems.

Best,

Doremus

I have Chamonix 4x5 wooden ones. (I think they've replaced the 4x5s with plastic type). In any case, I shook and did not feel anything moving around. It was solid. Of course, the dark slides were still in as I have film in all my holders. Could it be that the end piece that folds down when closing up after loading film presses the end of the film to the plate preventing movement? I'll check with the manufacturer.
https://www.chamonixviewcamera.com/a...es/filmholders

[xkaes]

I've used my Toko 4x5" camera with a home-made STAR TRACKER -- from Jim Ballard's book by the same name. Works pretty good for any format camera. I think the longest exposure I did was about 30 minutes. I've never used a long lens, however -- only wide-angles, in part to get some landscape in the scene. With a 300mm, the longest exposure without any star-streaks would be a LOT shorter.

https://www.diyphotography.net/how-t...rophotography/

[Drew Wiley]

With astro photography, fluctuations in sheet film plane are inevitable over such long exposures unless a vac system is used. In former decades, the earlier version of TMax 100 was still available in glass plates for such purposes.

Precise amateur widefield photography is still important for things like like comet and planetoid hunting, to help the big boys know where to aim their big toys. And I'd imagine its an awfully fun hobby in its own right.

[Alan Klein]

I have Chamonix 4x5 wooden ones. (I think they've replaced the 4x5s with plastic type). In any case, I shook and did not feel anything moving around. It was solid. Of course, the dark slides were still in as I have film in all my holders. Could it be that the end piece that folds down when closing up after loading film presses the end of the film to the plate preventing movement? I'll check with the manufacturer.
https://www.chamonixviewcamera.com/a...es/filmholders

Here's their answer:
Not necessary unless you find your film moving inside. I use Chamonix wooden 45 film holders all the time and never have the issue of film moving inside the holders.

[tgtaylor]

I've used my Toko 4x5" camera with a home-made STAR TRACKER -- from Jim Ballard's book by the same name. Works pretty good for any format camera. I think the longest exposure I did was about 30 minutes. I've never used a long lens, however -- only wide-angles, in part to get some landscape in the scene. With a 300mm, the longest exposure without any star-streaks would be a LOT shorter.

https://www.diyphotography.net/how-t...rophotography/

I'm using an iOptron tracker equipped with a zwo autoguider and phd2 so very long exposures of several hours are possible. The tracker allows for slow motion adjustments in right ascension so you can reposition the guide star when the eventual tracking error starts to creep in. Everything is mounted on a very stable Gitzo G1500 series-5 tripod which I can shield from wind with a golf umbrella when necessary. I'm thinking about getting a small tent/shelter to house the set-up in during long exposures and I need dew heaters that fit the camera lenses. Film is Fuji Acros II and Kodak Ektar for prints and Kodak Ektachrome E100 for slides to project. The 35mm and 6x7 projector lenses are threaded for filters but the 150 Rollie Heidosmat lens is not so I need to figure out a way to install a ccc filter on that lens to project color-corrected slides.