Jobo Development and Drums

[roscoetuff-Skip Mersereau]

I have apparently one of the small CPE 2+ units and mostly use the 2500 series drums. Have been revisiting a lot of the docs recently after a two-year digital interlude and coming back to film for fun... and leaving the digital "for events" where it fits best. I've run hundreds of rolls and 4X5 sheets thru my Jobo, but the articles on those of us Jobo AND 4X5 users aren't as common as might be otherwise. So picked up a new-to-me Reveni meter and kind of excited again (always a good thing).

Couple of questions for those doing 4X5:

1) Are the Expert Drums really all that much "better" in results (consistent, streakless, less developer requirement, etc) than the 2500 series with the funky flapper 2509 reels? The prices are "mega" and while I've seen youtubes of handrollers and refit of a Uniroller motor to turn the whole thing, there also thee inconvenience of a newer and bigger piece of hardware (though I do have a Uniroller that could be converted).

2) Finley's book and Jobo admonish not to dilute Stock more than 1:1, but given the aeration of roller development 100% of the time, I've wondered whether in fact Stock might be closer to 1:1 than I'd assumed. My own failed experiments with replenished developers and Jobo usage resulted in Jobo's own comments that the effects of aeration in roller development made the combination unlikely to lead to the sorts of results intended with replenishment.... so that led me back to the dilution thought. Similarly, in some places (Jobo and Ilford) documentation suggests cutting development times in using a Jobo. I haven't done that.

3) Finley suggests that ID11 and Jobo development are a great combination. I have a lot of ID11 on hand, a bit of Perceptol, and then still quite a bit of chemistry to make D23, some fixer, and probably the ingredients for a simple Asorbic Acid Stop. I'd been using a water stop and I'm aware there are or were a number of folks who talked me into this on the basis that an acid stop would harm my films, but I've also seen plenty who recommended it for Jobo nonetheless. Much as I admire Pyro in all its varieties, I live in an environmetally sensitive area so that's not likely my first go to... but I'm also confident the recomposed "modern" chems coming out are fine enough to not be incompatible... and offer the sort of consistency I didn't manage to get in playing with Caffenol on the same eco friendly kick. That said, I'm always open to suggestions...

4) Alternative uses of the Jobo: Mostly I haven't tried: Mixing chems (inversions) during Stand or Semi-Stand development and then removing the tank for the "STAND" parts. Some don't use a Jobo for the inversion part either given a proclivity to want to keep that "gentle", but then use it for all the subsequent washes, stops, fixes and clears, etc. I see a lot more folks post pictures giving the equivalent of the EXIF data, but without much info on the actual process. I guess since only Ansel was Ansel.... the rest of us figure "nobody cares".... and while often true... well... less isn't always more.

Thanks for any insights shared. Best to all for a continued beautiful summer here and hopefully wherever you might be!

[Joshua Dunn]

I have been developing in Jobo expert drums forever. There probably are some technical benefits to the expert drums over the 2600 series, however those may be subjective, or only detectable with a good scanner. If your negatives (from a processing perspective) look and perform the way you want then there is no issue. The biggest benefit to the expert series is the number of negatives you can process at a time. Both drums will use similar amounts of chemistry, the Jobo 3010 can process 10 sheets of 4x5 at a time as opposed to six (I think) for the 2600. So if you shoot a fair amount of film at one time, the expert drum is well worth it. The expert drums are also (at least to me) easier to load.

As far as developing, that is different for everyone. If you want to get really technical about it, find someone who has a densitometer (or buy a used one) and start photographing grey cards, which may be more technically complicated that you think. Develop in any developer you choose, developing one sheet at a time. Adjust your development time until you get the the correct density for 18% grey. That will give you a standard development time for a "normal" negative. You can adjust for the Zone system based on that. It will be different for every developer/film combination. Use distilled water for all of your chemistry.

There are lots of different techniques for developing, again use what works for you. Be aware that stand developing is the opposite of processing with a Jobo. It will be have to be tested separate from your Jobo results.

-Joshua

[Michael R]

If at all possible find someone or a lab that will let you run some careful tests with a well maintained Expert drum on a Jobo machine. I know that’s a tall order but the thing is this stuff is very expensive (my opinion) and I know of zero objective evidence. It’s all anecdotal, even from otherwise good sources, and I’d really want to see the results for myself.

[roscoetuff-Skip Mersereau]

Thank you for the recommendations. I've tried 12 shots in the 2505 series - 2 2509 reels - and cut that rather quickly to 4 sheets per roll. I guess I'm getting more and more conservative in thinking that maybe undiluted, 1 reel and just see what happens before pushing too far. Looking at the details among my printed and available sources, I'm thinking I was too aggressive before and will work with a LOT less to see if it ups the quality. And yes, hesitant to spend for a $600 drum when the $180 already gives me a nose bleed. "One step at a time...." or "Two steps forward and one step back..." are kind of the same thing.

[Vaughn]

Considering their resale value, Expert Drums are not expensive.

[Graham Patterson]

Jobo 1500/2500/2800 tanks/drums have minimum and maximum solution levels for rotary processing. Developers have a stated capacity (1 roll 35mm or 120 equates to 8x10 inches of area). How much dilution you can do depends on which limit you hit first - capacity or active ingredients. If you load 6 sheets of 4x5 in a 2509 reel, use the minimum volume (270ml) in a single reel tank and then dilute _a lot_, expect problems. That's doing 1 1/2 rolls equivalent of film in under 300ml of solution. It's a constraint of rotary processing. A CPE2+ might be able to accept more than 600ml in a tank/drum, but that's the limit for the motor.

Running less than 6 sheets in a 2509 reel is not uncommon with some developers.

[Alan9940]

I've used the Jobo Expert Drums to develop 4x5 and 8x10 on my CPP 2, since the mid-90's. Never used the 2509 reel so no idea if the Expert Drums are better, etc. I can tell you for fact that the Expert Drums provide much more consistent and even development vs tray processing (my developing method for sheet film until I got the Jobo.) As for dilutions, I've only ever made sure that I had whatever minimum of stock developer was necessary for whatever total square inches of film being developed. That said, I can't remember using any formula beyond a 1:1 dilution so, perhaps, inadvertently I was within guidelines. My only "special" developing treatment is when using PMK Pyro. I mix twice what would normally be needed (normal dilution) and change the solution at the mid-point of development to minimize the effects of oxidation.

[Fred L]

I have the 25xx tanks and the 4x5 reel with 'wings'. I also have Expert drums for 4x5 (5x7 and 8x10 as well) and much prefer the Expert over the 25xx. Strangely, everyone recommends a slight decrease in dev time because of constant agitation but I found regular times worked for me. Maybe it's the oxidation factor but film processed in Pyrocat HD looks fine with no decrease in time. This is all visual and not measured with densitometer readings.

As Vaughn advises, the price of the Expert drums may be intimidating initially but the resale should temper that shock. Just make sure you have the foot pump to release the lid


Also, I don't believe you can spin Expert drums with the CPE, you'll need a CPP-2, ideally with the upgraded motor.

[ic-racer]

Comparing B&W 8x10 film between the Expert drum and the 2500 'Paper' drum, the 2500 drum does not wet the entire back surface of the film. This may or may not cause a problem.

The Expert drum is pretty amazing. I have loaded B&W 8x10 film backwards (emulsion outward) in the cylinders and achieved complete normal development.

In terms of developer and dilution, if the developer exhausts during the process, one manifestation is less development in the center of the negative. So, if the edges are coming out too dense, consider the center may be under-developed and try to increase the amount of active developer in the tank.

[Larry Gebhardt]

It’s been a while since I ran any sheets with the 2509 reels, but I remember the film came out fine. But I prefer the expert drums for ease of loading and the ability to handle larger than 4x5 sizes.

The CPE won’t accept the expert drums so you will also be looking at a new processor or roller setup as well.

I’m surprised some company in China isn’t making knock offs of the expert drums. They are very simple and I’d expect it wouldn’t be that hard to design.