Sustainability of 8x10 film given the pricing situation

[StuartR]

I know that complaining about price is a true sport on the internet, but I wanted to see what people thought about the current situation. I have only been shooting 8x10 for about five years, but I love it. In smaller formats I have standardized on Tmax 400 and Provia 100F as my main two films for black and white and color. I think both are tremendous products and I really want to support them and continue using them, but the prices have truly climbed to absurd heights. I am a bit unlucky in that Iceland has an additional 33% tax on film (VAT and a customs surcharge), which means that prices are even harder to swallow than for those in the US or many parts of Europe. I look now at FotoImpex and Provia with shipping to Iceland would cost me 650 euros a box for twenty photos, not including processing or scanning (both of which I do myself). E6 chemicals, if you can find them, are pricey and take forever to arrive, as they are not able to be shipped by air (again, a disadvantage of being on an island in the middle of the ocean). So for this at least, we are looking at around 40 euros a sheet all told.

For black and white, thankfully Ilford still has some manageable prices. I would love to use Tmax, but it is not much better. With shipping and tax, Tmax 400 costs me 30 dollars a sheet without processing or scanning from B&H. I know that the prices are a bit better for those of you located nearer to the source or in places with lower taxes, but is it really possible to continue selling the film at this rate? Is this a stealth discontinuation on the part of Fuji, perhaps? There is nothing more spectacular than looking at an 8x10 slide, but I think I bought my last box last time, when it was "just" 330 dollars a box.

I would appreciate to hear from people who might have some more inside information. I remember hearing that Kodak was saying that the current high prices were allowing them to increase production and hopefully lower the prices, and while I have the deepest respect for the engineers and workers at Kodak, I would not really trust the executives farther than I could throw them. What do you all think? Are we all going to be all boutique companies and black and white only pretty soon, or is there a light at the end of the tunnel?

[Tin Can]

How much is Icelandic Vodka?

[Peter De Smidt]

I saw a cartoon on Facebook recently. In it a character said, "What drew me to vinyl records were the inconvenience and the expense!" 8x10 film shows every sign of becoming more expensive and less available. If the experience is worth it to you, then keep enjoying it as long as you can. If not, there's nothing wrong with using other photographic methods.

[Vaughn]

I think it would be cheaper to find some inexpensive refridgerated out-of-date 8x10 film on either side of the Atlantic, travel and buy it, then walk it thru customs back at home with the invoice, and pointing out the film is out-of-date. With the money you save you get a trip off that island!

[jp]

I think it would be cheaper to find some inexpensive refridgerated out-of-date 8x10 film on either side of the Atlantic, travel and buy it, then walk it thru customs back at home with the invoice, and pointing out the film is out-of-date. With the money you save you get a trip off that island!

That's a great idea. there are plenty of cheap flights during the dark season between Iceland and the US. Probably could pay for it with a couple boxes of Tmax 400 or FP4+ from B&H.

[Drew Wiley]

Well, there are plenty of wealthy people in this world, or even ordinary people who will spend more on a set of custom wheels than I ever spent for film in a year. Or think about all those with a ten dollar habit twice a day at Starbucks. And if someone isn't buying a lot of sheet film, it has no future. But all of this pricing issue is relative. And all the film and paper manufacturers are raising their prices. I realize that being on an island makes all kinds of things more expensive. But everyone in their own way has to juggle a budget. And if one only shoots what they really hope to print, then even 8x10 film is realistic.

Yeah, I might be a bit of a hypocrite when it comes to pricing, because I stashed away into my freezer enough 8X10 TMax and color Ektar film to probably last me till I'm 80, and bought it at about a fourth the current asking price. But the other half of my strategy is to shoot smaller more affordable film formats when big enlargements are not called for. For example, it's fairly easy to bring along a Fuji 6X9 rangefinder camera even when carrying an 8x10 setup.

I don't think there is any kind of dark sinister plot going on. There has just been a major pandemic, now a serious expensive war in Europe; petrochemicals and all kinds of other things have skyrocketed in price. It's not just film. And Kodak needs a distinct degree of real profit if they are going to go ahead with plans for actually expanding their film manufacture and hiring new people. That's a massive investment requiring highly specialized equipment.

Yes, your own circumstances might be exceptional. Here in the US, only color 8X10 film is over $30 a sheet, while even Kodak TMax is less than $10, and Ilford about $7. So you might want to find someone who can buy it in the US and ship it to you affordably, or bring it on their own shooting excursions there. Likewise, it probably just isn't realistic for any lab in Iceland to offer 8x10 E6 processing, while it's relatively easy to find here in the US.

[Alan9940]

TMax 400 is certainly a great film, but all Kodak film has gotten pretty expensive over the past few years. I would either decide for myself that TMax 400 is THE film I want to shoot (and not concern myself with the cost) or look for less expensive alternatives. Like Drew, I stocked up on 8x10 and other formats which will probably last me until I pass on to that darkroom in the sky. Have you considered other film such as x-ray and/or paper negatives?

[Kiwi7475]

It's really all relative. In economic terms, 8x10 film and color in particular, could be considered a pretty inelastic market. After Fuji dropped their E6 8x10 products, acceptable substitutes are very limited (as in limited to Kodak). Are they a necessity? Well, no. But as a photographer, are we really going to be willing to relinquish it completely? For many, probably not. You may choose to throttle back how much you use, or, in b&w, look at cheaper options, or go down in format size. If you already have a LF camera and all the lenses you need, then consider that if you went digital you would easily invest somewhere between $5K and $10K for a body and a few lenses. And probably change bodies in 4-5 years, maybe? Another few $K's when you do. Even at the current cost of film one could do 25 shots of 8x10 E100 for like ~$800 / year (including development at a lab -- I do believe the economy of in house development of 8x10 E6 isn't there anymore unless you do lots and lots). That's quite a bit! Want to do more and not scale linearly? Do 25 shots of 8x10 that count, and use 4x5 for the rest. Too much to even consider doing 25 in 8x10? Scale down to 4x5. The truth is that for most folks here if you shoot E6 8x10 is because you want to -- you could do equally well in 4x5-- you're just upgrading yourself to an experience in 8x10 that you (and I) want to have :-)

To put that in context -- I hope hotels in Iceland haven't climbed up in cost/night as they have in the US, but one can "easily" spend here $1K in just a few days of hotel. Add eating out, visiting museums or whatever, and other things, and instead of a long weekend get away, you could have quickly bought yourself several boxes of 8x10 E100.

Film prices are painful but maybe not as high as they were way back when. For example, you may find this article interesting: https://mikeeckman.com/2021/11/a-loo...rices-of-film/
It says for example how in1954, a single roll of 36-exposure 35mm Kodachrome was $5.50 (developing and slide mounting was included). When adjusted for inflation, that's like $56 today.

What I can say is -- learn from others, like Drew in post #6. Make a sacrifice now and buy as much 8x10 E6/C41 as you can possibly buy now, and put it in the freezer. Stash year by year. The truth is that every year you wait you are making it more difficult for you to continue shooting this format.

[lassethomas]

Well I agree with Drew in post #6. If you still think it's worth it you need to invest on a regular basis.
It's like stocks, if you want to be in for the long game you need to buy regulary to even out the risk and cost over time.

Myself I have given up on color for 8x10. I still have a few E100 boxes in the freezer but I'll save them for cutting down to 4x10.
But I regularly buy Velvia and Prova for 4x5 and 120 so I at least can shoot for the coming 3-5 years. Beyond that, who knows.

For b/w I think Foma is OK considering the price. I know some in this thread has had bad experiences but I never had any problems really.

All that aside. I'm actually coming to Iceland on the 2nd of September, doing the ring road for two weeks. Perhaps a meet up or something. Give me a PM if you are interested

[Greg]

Film costs I have just come to just accept. Besides I now shoot a whole lot less film than I did in the mid 1970s through around 2000. What irks me is when an emulsion is discontinued. First LF film was Super XX. When it was discontinued, I bought as much as I could afford at the time. Same with Bergger 200 for LF and ULF. Presently use FP4 plus and have enough in the freezer to last me till I am no longer able to shoot LF and ULF.