Matching Goerz Dagor lenses - A two lens kit for 8x10”

[Tim V]

Hi all,

I’ve been shooting 8x10” for ages, mostly using a Dagor type 210mm G-Claron which I love, and occasionally 12” Am Opt. Gorez Dagor. The former is in great condition, the latter pretty ratty!

The G-Claron has always impressed me for its relative sharpness and contrast, even with modest movements. The Goerz has a completely different look. It’s much lower contrast, with flare that seems to open up the shadows. Detail is good, but less microcontrast. I like the way it renders / looks too, but it’s very different to the G-Claron. It's like I have dial down my exposures with the 12" then slightly overdevelop to get a more punchy look to match.

I've been wanting to expand my lens selection for ages and have been keeping an eye out for Dagor type lenses online that might suit. Well, this week I caved in and bought an Am Opt 10.75” Dagor in Copal 3 off eBay. It should arrive soon… It looks to be in significantly better condition than my 12”, but far more my kind of focal length – I'm more of a wide to normal-wide shooter mostly.

I’m looking forward to seeing how this lens renders compared to my G-Claron, as in an ideal world they’d produce a look that is in the same ballpark without exposure and processing adjustment. I’m wondering if anyone else has done any tests to see how the different versions / brandings of Dagors and dagor-type lenses compare in this regard? Has anyone else put together their perfect ‘matched’ kit?

Looking into the crystal ball, I can see myself trying to hunt down good condition a Gorez Dagor 8 1/4" of the same period as my new lens to hone things in. I can't afford the fabled Gold Dot Dagor, but maybe the standard Am Opt Co Dagor will suffice?

Thanks,

T

[Greg]

240mm Dagor in a compur was my favorite
12 inch f/4.5 Wollensak Velostigmat Series II BETAX 5 my first lens
switched to shooting 11x14 years ago and sold both lenses

few years ago acquired an 8x10 Chamonix and resurrected my 8x10 Norma and now shoot mainly with
250mm f/6.7 Fujinon-W
330mm f/6.8 IA Raptar, convertible to 508mm (20”), 647mm (25 ½”)
whole Chamonix system easily fits inside a backpack
on rare occasions also a 120mm WA Nikkor

[Mark Sawyer]

I have a few, and they all have their charms. The big difference seems to be whether they're coated or not; with only two interior air-glass surfaces, even uncoated Dagors have decent contrast, but AR coatings are still an improvement. The Dagor's design was also subtly improved over the decades, so later ones have a bit better resolution performance, at least from my experience. Those design improvements more-or-less coincide with the addition of coatings after WWII, so the later ones have the advantage, though you lose the old "Dagor glow" from early examples that still had spherical aberration, which was responsible for the early Dagors' focus shift.

As you're partial to wider angles, you might want to add an f/8 Wide Angle Dagor to your list of possibilities. The 165mm (4 3/8 inch) covers 8x10.

[David Lindquist]

As you're partial to wider angles, you might want to add an f/8 Wide Angle Dagor to your list of possibilities. The 165mm (4 3/8 inch) covers 8x10.

I'm sure you meant 6 1/2 inch.

David

[Tim V]

Thanks, guys.

I’m slowly coming to the realisation that I’m going to have to buy a 8 1/4” single coated Goerz Dagor to satisfy the itch. Maybe it won’t offer anything of substance over the G-Claron, but I’d assume two lenses by the same manufacturer of the same period would produce more comparable results - making for easier workflow etc.

I’ve been printing solidly for the last few weeks, so any excuse to get out and expose more film really…

[Mark Sawyer]

I'm sure you meant 6 1/2 inch.

David

No, I meant the 4 3/8 inch. That focal length of the f/8 wide angle covers 8x10, if just barely. In the f/6.8 standard version, yes, you need 210mm to cover 8x10, again just barely.

[David Lindquist]

165 mm / 25.4 = 6.496 inches

David

[Drew Wiley]

I've only used the final and most corrected renditions of gold dot Dagors, the Kern 14 inch ones, both SC and MC. Neither can compete with G-Claron PLASMAT lenses with respect to tangential performance, apo properties, image circle, and close range usage. I presume dagor barrel GC's, borrowed from graphics applications, would only have the semi-apo and sharpness benefits unless distinctly WA designated. What the only four air/glass interfaces of dagor design does allow is exceptional contrast microtonality, and in more modern versions, the most color hue saturation of any kind of camera lenses - too much in fact for chrome film in my experience, at least with the final MC rendition. I acquired my SC version after switching to color neg film instead of chromes, so can't make an exact comparison. And I mostly use it only for 8X10 b&w work anyway.

[Mark Sawyer]

165 mm / 25.4 = 6.496 inches

David

Oops, a senior moment, my bad. Still, the 6.94 inch Dagor might be a nice option for the OP.

[David Lindquist]

Oops, a senior moment, my bad. Still, the 6.94 inch Dagor might be a nice option for the OP.

Believe me I'm very aware of that phenomenon.

David