Why is 8x10 so expensive over 4x5 ?

[Daniel Unkefer]

Over the years I have bought a LOT of gear in Europe (and wherever) and surprisingly prices are often LOWER than in the USA. As proof I now have twelve different Normas in my studio.

SONY DSC by Nokton48, on Flickr

I built this new to me 8x10 Norma (my second one) which I configured from pieces I recently acquired. An F Front Standard, and a Norma 8x10 Rear Standard. A great location combination. I got this idea when my Wife and I went to the Wexner Center at O.S.U. and see Annie Leibovitz's photos on exhibition. This camera was shown in a photo Annie snapped was a wall-sized B&W, of Richard Avedon's equipment closet. I thought it rather strange at the time, an F front attached to a 8x10 Norma. I think it will make a very good field camera. Shown with the 360mm Schneider Symmar in Norma Iris mount, and the Norma Shutter. So a 60's era speedy location camera. I've tested the camera in the studio and it's a winner. BTW the 8x10 Norma Rear Standard came from a very nice gentleman in France. It needed some work but unless completely busted any Norma can be fully restored. Keith at Custom Bellows makes wonderful Norma bellows any way you want them. Did you know he made bellows for all Sinar Norma at the time?

[Drew Wiley]

Hmmm. Interesting. I sure like the original Norma bellows better than the later Sinar bellows. Keith made a replacement bellows for my Durst 8X10 enlarger a few years ago. As far as the whole camera thing goes, there seems to be plenty of affordable 8X10 cameras out there. But someone starting out can have difficulty deciding what they really need, and what they don't.

I'm very very glad that I never myself began with the premise of buying any kind of marginal quality of "starter" camera, but in fact began with a 4X5 Sinar F camera which proved highly versatile and held up many years with a few component changes. All of that interchanges with my now preferred Norma. But 8x10 Sinars of any variety might get too heavy for realistic field use. Avedon certainly wasn't anything remotely resembling a fit outdoorsman, and had assistants.

Anyway, I ended up with an 8X10 Phillips folder back when they were just about the cheapest choice around (only the 9th one he made). But it was still darn solid. I dunno about today's entry level choices. ...Think I'd look for something a little more seriously built. People often spend more for all kinds of things they don't really need than what a Chamonix costs; so it's just a matter of priorities. But's the camera itself is where 8X10 photography expense just begins; and it can be addicting.

[jp]

In the US, Sinar, Calumet, Burke & James (B&J), Kodak all have used budget camera options for 8x10. Midrange is some Kodak Commercial, Deardorf, and more premium might be Canham.

[Fred L]

Can't speak to current Intrepids, but the only reason I got the v1.0 8x10 was for the weight (my Zone VI costs and weighs substantially more). While the Intrepid is easy as heck to carry in a pack, mine is nowhere near as stable as the Zone VI (or likely any other similar modern wooden folder). Work within its limitations and a new world opens up, but from my experience, temper your expectations. This, depending on your finances, might be a case of pay now, or pay later.

An alternative would be 5x7, which I shoot more of, as I've basically stopped shooting 4x5.


Good luck, big negatives are really something else !

[Michael R]

Hello everyone!
I am thinking about buying my first LF. I'm very decided on the 8x10 but I'm wondering why there are such huge price differences between these cameras ? I can find 4x5 Sinar, Wista or Toyo in good condition on ebay at prices of 200-400 euros. 8x10 models are already priced at 2000-4000 euros.
I can understand 4x more expensive films because of the size but 10-15x more expensive bodies is a bit much. Or do you recommend other places than ebay ?

Consider it a sign. You’ll most likely be better off with a 4x5 anyway

[Tin Can]

Perhaps you don't know your 1/2 of paradise did not use standard USA, 4X5 and 8X10

You may want a Metric camera and film

https://www.fotoimpex.com/films/foma...50-sheets.html

I have this size and it requires matching DDS

Buy in EU

[Daniel Unkefer]

I don't go out with an 8x10 to do exploratory photography. I only take out the 8x10 when I have "worked over" a subject with 4x5, and created something strong enough to justify the weight and expense of returning to re-do with 8x10. Then I will go out with the right film, and the right lens, and I know in advance what I want to accomplish. Usually, I leave the camera on my wooden tripod, put a pillow under my shoulder, and balance the rig as I hike. I am not alpine mountain climbing, we don't have that in Ohio. LOL. A bag of 8x10 holders (heavy and a LOT of weight), meter, and small stuff, that's it. I did that for decades and sometimes I hiked for miles and sometimes miles this way. A Norma 8x10 is not THAT heavy, the only way to verify that is to actually USE ONE for a while. When I got to where I was going, I was always delighted that the 8x10 Norma was with me Actually the reason I bought the first 8x10 Norma Back, was that Fred Picker was using his out in the field. I figured if he could make it work, so could I. Back then the only Normas I ever found were on Glenn's printed out sheets (no internet back then).

During Covid I decided to acquire more equipment, seems like interest was low (prices sometimes too). A 4x5 Norma could be around the price of Calumet C400. What a NO BRAINER!

Nowadays I WILL take out an assistant depending on the situation. With that monster 1000mm rig I will probably want TWO assistants. I'm not a spring chicken anymore Fun Ahead!

[Daniel Unkefer]

Perhaps you don't know your 1/2 of paradise did not use standard USA, 4X5 and 8X10

You may want a Metric camera and film

https://www.fotoimpex.com/films/foma...50-sheets.html

I have this size and it requires matching DDS

Buy in EU

Yes!! Cheaper than buying from the USA usually and they have the selection. I buy a big quantity to justify the shipping. Winter is THE time to order, so the film doesn't roast in delivery trucks. Lots of cool emulsions available in metric sizes. I buy 9x12cm, 13x18cm, and 18x24cm from Photoimpex. Ilford in metric I buy from a warehouse right up the road from the Ilford factory, trucks deliver there daily.

[nolindan]

All other things held constant, prices will follow the cube of the linear dimension.

Going from 4x5 to 8x10 is a 2x increase in the linear dimension, a 4x increase in the planar (square/film) dimension and an 8x increase in the volume (cube/camera) dimension.

[Drew Wiley]

My pack actually weighs more with my Pentax 6X7, and a set of lenses including some long teles in it, than with my 8x10 Phillips folder and a few petite lenses in it. And one doesn't need many sheet film holders for a daily outing. One or two really good shots is plenty. Just how many are you going to find time to print anyway? I chose the 6X7 yesterday afternoon due to the wind conditions. But in the darkroom, 8x10 negs are a real joy to print. And just studying the world and composition on that large opalescent ground glass is a reward in itself. I find the whole 8X10 experience distinct from what I get shooting 4X5, which does have its own advantages, however. When someone who works at a photo lab recently asked me about the practical difference, I told him, "Cost-wise, 4X5 is the new 8X10".