Artist Refuses Prize After His AI Image Wins at Top Photo Contest

[jnantz]

What does history have to do with this? Most people today shoot pictures with cameras. It may be a dedicated camera, digital or film, or a camera in a cellphone or netbook or laptop. But the photos are taken with cameras.

it has everything to do with this because basically you have suggested that traditional/chemical photography is photography and AI isn't ( and jerks use AI ), and in the same breath you claim that camera-less photography isn't even photography because people use cameras. I suggested you read/consider the history of photography because you will realize that you are pretty much wrong. camera-less photography served you your lunch (so to speak). and my guess is that most every person on this website or any website that has anything to do with chemical/traditional photography, and the people who don't bother with the internet and do darkroom or whatever-work have made a cameraless photograph. and seeing you don't use a darkroom, dim room or the sun (except to make your camera-exposure) .... YOU haven't made a cameraless photograph so you don't even think it exists. that isn't meant to be harsh, or to out you for not doing darkroom work, one of the reasons I do a lot of cameraless and outdoor/sun based work is cause I’d rather be doing something other than being in a darkroom, . but ... just because you don't do it, doesn't mean it isn't there.

[paulbarden]

This is starting to sound like the gender debates that's all in fashion lately.

If you're suggesting that because we as a species are finally acknowledging the fact that gender identity is a grey area thing for some people, that it's simply a "fashion" issue, then you're stepping into some very tricky territory. Don't be surprised if you step on figurative landmines in the process, Alan.

[r_a_feldman]

What does history have to do with this? Most people today shoot pictures with cameras. It may be a dedicated camera, digital or film, or a camera in a cellphone or netbook or laptop. But the photos are taken with cameras.

Tell that to Man Ray: https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/265487

Or to Anna Atkins: https://petapixel.com/2013/04/18/the...pes-of-plants/

(I realize that both Man Ray and Atkins are long dead, so “Tell that to …” is more of a figure of speech )

And there are living photographers who continue the tradition: https://www.widewalls.ch/magazine/photogram-artists

[Pieter]

Tell that to Man Ray: https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/265487

Or to Anna Atkins: https://petapixel.com/2013/04/18/the...pes-of-plants/

(I realize that both Man Ray and Atkins are long dead, so “Tell that to …” is more of a figure of speech )

And there are living photographers who continue the tradition: https://www.widewalls.ch/magazine/photogram-artists

It would be remiss to omit Meghann Riepenhoff and others doing similar work: https://www.theguardian.com/artandde...tidal-patterns

[cowanw]

A contact print or indeed any enlarged chemical print is a cameraless photograph. A camera may make a slide photograph or may make a negative photograph. Just saying.

[paulbarden]

Have any of you actually looked up the definition of "photography"?? Essentially it's the action of light on a recording medium. A camera is NOT needed to fulfill the definition. That includes a photogram, a lumen print and even a flatbed scan. If light was used to create an image on a recording medium, its a photograph.

"the art or process of producing images by the action of radiant energy and especially light on a sensitive surface (such as film or an optical sensor)"

[Alan Klein]

How many people here don't use a camera to get the initial photograph? The arguments about Man Ray, photograms, etc are interesting. But they represent less than 1% of photography. Let me repeat what I said. MOST photographs start with a camera. The exceptions make the rule.

[jnantz]

all your comments in this thread are your personal opinions which are not fact-based.

[faberryman]

I think that those who advocate for a restrictive definition of photography should also advocate for a restrictive definition of photographer. Since those who argue for a restrictive definition of photography frequently rely on the Manifesto of Group f/64, I think it is fair to look at the practices of the members of Group f/64 to inform a definition of photographer. Group f/64 members processed all their own film and made all their own prints in the darkroom. It follows then if you don't process all your own film and make all your own prints in the darkroom, you cannot be a photographer. You cannot achieve photographer status simply by knowing how to fill out a mail-in processing envelope, prepaid or otherwise. An appropriate term for those who do not process all their own film and make all their own prints in the darkroom is happy snapper. Happy snappers will undoubtedly argue that many great photographers did not process all their own film and make all their own prints in the darkroom. While that may be true, I will make an exception for all great photographers. If a happy snapper can demonstrate that he creates work of comparable quality to the great photographers, I will happily grant him an exception too. That sounds fair. Otherwise, happy snappers can proudly take their place along side Uncle Harry and Aunt Matilda who take happy snaps on their summer vacation to Florida. One benefit of being a happy snapper is that you can talk all about your expensive camera and bag full of lenses with like minded happy snappers on internet happy snap forums.

As far as using a camera or not, since everyone is tossing out aphorisms like bread crumbs to the birds, I'll do the same and say there is more than one way to skin a cat and spice is the variety of life. I think part of the problem here is that some of those who argue for a restrictive definition of photography have an inadequate knowledge of the history of photography, and don't seem interested in addressing their shortcoming. This is probably a case of you can't teach an old dog new tricks.

[Pieter]

AI uses cameras, although indirectly. It does not create images from thin air, it combines existing, camera-based images for its work.