Choosing between Sinar and Gowland as first Camera

[G Benaim]

Hello,
I'm debating which of the two to get as my first 4x5 field camera, and wanted to get some experienced input. The Sinar is 3.5 times heavier but more solid and easier to use movements on. The Gowland doesn't need a bag bellows for short lenses, and can be extended for using longer ones I think. I don't know how much I'll use the precision movements the sinar offers for landscape work, and I don't really intend to do architecture or table-top stuff. Is the lack of positive detents a real pain on the Gowland? How do most people zero them in the field? Another consideration is the Gowland comes w a 90m/6.8 rodenstock for $325 total, but the lens has some fungus. I figure it's almost the price the camera alone would fetch. Oh, I also already own a couple of lenses, a 150 caltar and a 240 sironar 5.6. I was wondering whether the 240 is too heavy to use on a camera as light as the gowland, and whether it fits in the lensboard. Thanks in advance, GB

[steve simmons]

Before buying either of these cameras, or any camera for that matter, may I suggest some reading and thinking.

Here is a link to several articles that might be helpful

http://www.viewcamera.com/archives.html

Here are some books I recommend

Jim Stone’s User’s Guide to the View Camera
My book Using the View Camera
Jack Dykinga’s book Large Format Nature Photography

See if your local library has them

I would not buy a lens with fungus, at least without getting a cleaning estimate.

Take a look at the Arca Swiss cameras

Don’t discount a folding camera. Some people call them field cameras but even monorails can be field cameras. I prefer the terms monorail and folding cameras.

If anyone here starts giving you specific camera recommendations ask them what they photograph and what range of lenses they use. These are things you should try and decide on before buying a camera. A view camera is a tool. Some are better suited for some subjects than others.

Steve Simmons
Viewcamera.com

[Oren Grad]

I've owned three Gowlands over the years. Although none of them has been a 4x5, the basic design features have been consistent across all of his monorails.

The main issue with these cameras in my experience is indeed that there are no detents or calibrations for anything, and if you get sloppy it's easy to leave one of the knobs too loose or just generally to knock something out of alignment. But if you have a bit of patience, and are willing to work slowly and carefully, there's no reason you can't get excellent negatives out of a Gowland. The light weight certainly helps: when you find your picture opportunity, you'll still have enough energy left to sweat the details.

But why are you limiting your choice to just Sinar and Gowland? For general landscape and field snapshooting, many people start with a folding wooden camera. Virtually all of those are lighter than the Sinar, and most are more forgiving in handling than a Gowland.

[Frank Petronio]

A 4x5 Gowland and even a nasty 90/6.8 Rodenstock is a bargain that you should probably get regardless. Thanks to eBay you can unload anything you don't use, and I think it is a great way to "sample" cameras.

There is nothing wrong with either camera. You may want to experiment by buying and selling a few of the most popular models in your price range (there are great deals on less popular used 4x5s that cost less than $500 (Cambos, Calumets, Ikedas, Sinar Normas and Fs and older Arca-Swiss) -- and for $1000 you can sample most of the greatest hits (Arca-Swiss Discovery, Linhof Technikas, Sinar F2s, wood and metal Wistas, Toyo Fields). View cameras are pretty simple -- unlike buying an electronic marvel you can look at a view camera and see if anything is broken, warped, or messed up. The vast majority of view cameras I've bought used have been excellent because it is hard to hide any flaws.

A full featured monorail is night and day different than a Gowland, as will be a wooden folding field camera. Try them all before you become another "expert" on the internet ;-)

[steve simmons]

If you live near enough Chicago there is a large format trade show happening at the Best Western Clocktower Resort in Rockford, IL June 9-11. It is free to the public. If you want directions call the hotel at 815-398-6000. There will probably be more cameras there for people to see, touch and fondle than in any other single location in the US this year.

steve simmons

[G Benaim]

In fact, Frank, that's how I'm looking at it. I would probably get the Sinar because of its long lense capability, but am curious what the Gowland can do, and at such a price w a lens I'm very tempted. The reason I've so far refrained from folding cameras is that their price to features ration is rather high, whereas w a monorail you get a lot for your money, and some of them aren't much heavier than a folding camera, like the Sinar Fs. Then again, I' speak not from actual experience but from reading and thinking about my current lens range (I use a Hasselblad and many of my shots are done on the 250mm), so I'm very open to experienced advice. Thanks again.

[G Benaim]

Steve,

I'm nowhere near Chicago. In fact, I live in Israel, and the book selection in my local library is rather slim in the lf area. I may however, order some books anyway, though the deal on the Gowland may not wait.

[CXC]

I've owned both a Sinar P and a Gowland 4x5's for a few years. Which Sinar are you talking about? The P/2 IMHO is too cumbersome to use more than about 50 yards from the car. The Gowland is a great traveler. The Sinar P/2 is really a studio camera, and the level of control it provides is way overkill for field work. If you are looking at an F/2, maybe someone else can chime in, as I've never used one.

Lack of detents is one of the compromises made by Gowland to maximize light weight. That doesn't particularly bother me: it turns out that it is perfectly possible to start off with a non-squared camera, just be careful and check every movement. More troublesome is the combined front rise and tilt, both controlled by the same knob; that takes a little practise and coordination to manipulate rapidly.

On a more personal note, my Sinar sits idle in the closet, and I just ordered a new 8x10 Gowland this week.

[John Kasaian]

GBB,

Its 'horses for courses' You can take a Gowland places you can't take a Sinar, but a Sinar will be a joy to use in a studio. These are two very different cameras even though both are monorail 4x5s, just like a clyesdale and a thorobred are both horses but you'll kill as thorobred if you hitch him to a beer wagon and you'll never win the derby with a clyesdale.

What do you want to take pictures of? :-)

[G Benaim]

John,

90% of my work is outside, shooting natural settings. I do have a back problem, so I always carry my gear in a shopping cart (Hasselblad kit w 4 lenses). The idea of a 4x5 kit that's lighter than my current setup is very appealing, though I'm not sure I want to sacrifice too much ease of use for that weight advantage. The sinars I'm considering are the f series, which weigh around 7lbs., as opposed to the 2-3lbs of a Gowland. The question is whether in the larger scheme of things, w tripod, holders, lenses, etc. that 4lb weight difference makes much difference. The other great advantage of the Sinar for me is the ability to use very long lenses, i.e. greater than 240-300mm, since I do a lot of my work in that area.