new (and first) 4x5 camera

[Ari]

The 45CF is not metal - the body is made of polycarbonate/glass fiber composite. There were numerous reports early on of quality control issues with the 45CF - don't know whether they ever got that under control before the camera was discontinued. It did not have a long sales life as view cameras go. I would not buy one without either being able to inspect the particular sample before committing or else having a reasonable return period.

My mistake, I had it confused with another variation of the Toyo 45a type cameras, the 45ar. Thanks for pointing that out, Oren.
OP, based on Oren wrote here, it doesn't sound like the CF would be a reliable option unless you got lucky with a solid camera.
If pursuing this style of camera, look at Toyo A, AII or similar, IOW, all-metal. Or you could also consider a Wista folder, very tough as well.

[tykos]

My mistake, I had it confused with another variation of the Toyo 45a type cameras, the 45ar. Thanks for pointing that out, Oren.
OP, based on Oren wrote here, it doesn't sound like the CF would be a reliable option unless you got lucky with a solid camera.
If pursuing this style of camera, look at Toyo A, AII or similar, IOW, all-metal. Or you could also consider a Wista folder, very tough as well.

yep, that was exactly my problem with it.
But i'm limiting the search to lighter cameras, an all-metal folder will weight twice those (based on some reading here and there).

[Chris Mast]

I have been shooting 4x5 since I was a teenager. So 44 years. I am also a college professor who teaches photography. So this advice is not given lightly. You can carry just about any 4x5 camera made in a backpack short distances. I shoot most of my work in a large city and simply put my camera and tripod on a folding 2 wheeler. Over the years I have collected many 4x5 cameras and have found that all of them have very specific strengths and weaknesses.

If you want to get your feet wet a used press camera is the way to go. An old Crown or Speed graphic or MPP is a good start. Also, don't discount a rail camera at this point. Many Toyo rail cameras have been produced for student use. These are full system cameras and are very light. They are easy to take apart and pack well. They are mostly plastic and aluminum and the models with the tapered bellows are especially compact to travel with.

Using a view camera is like playing a musical instrument you must practice with it. The only way to know if a camera is right for you is to use it. I have used all of the major brands of 4x5 cameras and have found the most expensive ones to be a little better than the cheapest. I currently use a Crown Graphic, several Super Cambos, Calumet CC Wide, and a Sinar F2. I gave up on the Toyo field cameras years ago because they are slow to set up and are heavy.

[grat]

I think Stenopeika is all made of wood and metal, it's not 3d printed at all (well, maybe some knobs, i don't know).
I looked at chroma, but the carbon adventurer costs about 600£ (700€) + let's say 30% VAT&duties = 900€, it's quite higher than the other contestants here.

Eep! That's a bonkers VAT. At that point, the Chamonix 45N-1 makes a bit more sense.

You're right on the Stenopeika-- I was confusing it with the low end Gibellini, which has had some QC issues from posts by others.

[Greg Y]

There are a number of Toyo 45A or 45 A ll available for reasonable prices in Japan.... even factoring in VAT....they are a good sturdy camera and preferable to the carbon fiber CF in my opinion. With the VAT & shipping charges I'd be inclined to just stretch once...& not bother with old press cameras or starter cameras like the Intrepid. You can buy a Toyo from Japan for $350-500 USD... and it's a reliable camera that you'll get years out of.

[tykos]

Eep! That's a bonkers VAT. At that point, the Chamonix 45N-1 makes a bit more sense.

That’s 22% VAT and something for custom duties. I don’t know the exact amount, but 30% is in the ballpark.
That’s also the problem with Japanese or American stuff: prices are usually great, but with this added amount they need to be REALLY REALLY great.

[tykos]

You can carry just about any 4x5 camera made in a backpack short distances. I shoot most of my work in a large city and simply put my camera and tripod on a folding 2 wheeler.

Unfortunately a 2 wheeler or a cart of some sorts isn’t that great in woodlands or in the alps, otherwise I’d have already found lots of monorails, they are quite cheap.

If you want to get your feet wet a used press camera is the way to go. An old Crown or Speed graphic or MPP is a good start. Also, don't discount a rail camera at this point. Many Toyo rail cameras have been produced for student use. These are full system cameras and are very light. They are easy to take apart and pack well. They are mostly plastic and aluminum and the models with the tapered bellows are especially compact to travel

There are not lots of metal folding cameras in the used market here, and you can find really expensive and beautiful mint linhof or similar, or some graflex that probably was passed over by a tank but at the price of those new cameras I listed.
I was looking at some monorails, but it seems that even the lightest ones are over 4kg.

[Alan Gales]

Toyo 45CF cameras are few and far between. Lately, I've seen prices higher than the Toyo 45A and 45All. The 45A and 45All are more capable but weigh more.

If considering the metal Toyo 45A or 45All, I'd also look at metal Wista VX or SP cameras.

It's hard to beat the price of an Intrepid. Just understand that it is an entry level camera. You will probably sell it later and buy something else. Of course that could be said about anything. If you buy used and later sell you will recoup most of your money back if you buy right. I'd try to find a used Intrepid over a new one.

Of course there are used Chamonix cameras out there. Just be patient.

[Bernice Loui]

Go back to what your image goals are, then what lenses are needed to achieve these image goals, where these images and how these images are made then camera.

Too many decide on a camera first only to discover their first view camera cannot function with the lenses they need to used to achieve their image goals.


Bernice

[tykos]

Toyo 45CF cameras are few and far between. Lately, I've seen prices higher than the Toyo 45A and 45All. The 45A and 45All are more capable but weigh more.

If considering the metal Toyo 45A or 45All, I'd also look at metal Wista VX or SP cameras.

It's hard to beat the price of an Intrepid. Just understand that it is an entry level camera. You will probably sell it later and buy something else. Of course that could be said about anything. If you buy used and later sell you will recoup most of your money back if you buy right. I'd try to find a used Intrepid over a new one.

Of course there are used Chamonix cameras out there. Just be patient.

yes, i'm also searching the used market, but frankly i don't think i've ever saw an intrepid or a chamonix. Never lose hope, though!!

Go back to what your image goals are, then what lenses are needed to achieve these image goals, where these images and how these images are made then camera.

Too many decide on a camera first only to discover their first view camera cannot function with the lenses they need to used to achieve their image goals.


Bernice

well, my first post comes after that thinking:
- landscapes, woodlands, some other things
- not creepy wide lenses, my hasselblad's 50 is the least used one
- not super tele
- preferably portable, "backpack-able", even in some steep hikes and with some non photo gear with me
- budget

the cameras i listed are all pretty light, the price is reasonable (for me, obv), they support probably wider lenses i'd like to use, they have similar movements that (i think, here i need the experts e.g. this forum) are suitable for my needs. Stenopeika does not have front shift but has back swing, toyo does not have any back movement (apart those derived from the drop bed), i think they are quite similar, all things considered.

That's that.