Arca-swiss f classic - query about format conversion from 4x5 to 5x7

[aruns]

Hi, I am thinking about adding a 5x7 rear to the arca swiss f classic 4x5.

Arca website catalog lists these parts for format conversion (link):
062021 Format frame 5x7“ F -classic, rear
088012 Film holder and groundglass frame 5x7“ with Fresnel
075000 Standard bellows 5x7“, 50cm, biconical, synthetic

A new kit is out of my budget, so I am wondering if it is reasonably easy to get it used (i.e., if it is a unicorn or costs similar to new kit, I might consider an intrepid or chamonix).
I'd also like to hear the experiences of those who did the format conversion.

thanks!

[agregov]

Unfortunately, the 5x7 conversion kits are very rare. In fact, a full F line 5x7 camera is very rare to find in the States used. I talked to Rod Klukas about purchasing the 5x7 conversion new and it was about $3500. He said there were rumors that Arca was no longer going to make the 5x7 cameras and that was 3-4 years back. Not sure what the status is today. With regard to the conversion kit, I did later find a used kit. It needs a 171 front format frame. The bellows is long enough for a 450mm. The widest lens with full movements is probably a 210mm without a wide angle bellows. It's a super conversion kit, zero issues with it. A used 5x7 conversion kit would probably cost around $1500. I wouldn't wait for a kit to appear used though. It would be better to pick up the Intrepid and start shooting and then keep looking for a used conversion kit. May as well learn if you like the format before paying more money for the Arca or Chamonix.

[Mds88]

I purchased an arca swiss f classic 4x5 from Rod Klukas a couple of years ago, wanting to be able to shoot 4x5, 5x7 and 617. Rod worked with Keith Canham to fabricate a rear 5x7 standard and bellows that connects to my front arca standard, fitting on to the arca rail. My setup also included Keith's 617 back that fits on to the 5x7 standard. I have been very happy with the setup.

[neil poulsen]

Here's a thought . . .

If you can find some sort of 5x7 wood conversion, replace the bellows frame with a 171mm lensboard that has it's center cut out. (i.e. to make a bellows frame.) Then fasten an Arca "dove-tail" to the bottom of the rear, wood standard of the 5x7 conversion. This dovetail will slide onto the top of an Arca function carrier.

[Bernice Loui]

Been here, almost done this.. Decided to ditch the entire idea-project. 5x7 Arca Swiss cameras are mostly rare.






Started with a 5x7 arca swiss. Idea and goal being modify the front of the arca swiss to fit a Sinar 4x5 frame to allow using the Sinar shutter and Sinar lens boards. The project got as far as needing a special bellows to make it all go. The results of all this produced a camera no better, in many ways worst than a 5x7 Sinar Norma.

Limitations with the arca swiss, limited rail and fixed unless the folder rail is procured. This plus the bellows limits what lenses are possible to be used with the arca. To get the most out of wide angle lenses requires a bag bellows which is another special item.

Conclusion, the resulting arca swiss monorail is simply too limiting in too many ways. It might be perceived the arca swiss is light weight,
the resulting camera was not much lower weight and very possible heavier than the 5x7 Sinar Norma.


Bernice

[Ambrown31]

I have only ever seen the old non f-line 5x7 come up and it was for sale in Europe. I wouldn’t bother waiting for one to come up used. Used Arca-Swiss gear in general is pretty rare at least in the US. Get what you want as a package deal. Trying to piece kits together is a huge pain.

[aruns]

hi agregoc, Mds88, Neil, Bernice and Ambrown31,
thank you very much for the inputs and suggestions. really appreciate them.
It's a really a shame that the Arca's promises of full modularity, versatility, etc. cannot be easily realized.
I guess I will look into the intrepid option.

regards,
Arun

[Bernice Loui]

Arca DOES have modularity, versatility and all that. Difficulty is adder parts are not easy to come by and they are not low cost. Arca bits are very high quality and the camera does function good in many ways. This is why the 6x9 Arca remains a keeper. It can only be that specific 6x9 view camera within it's own world and not much beyond as it is good at what is require from it.

Going back a few decades with the first exposure to Arca swiss cameras compare to other monorail cameras, the factors above and more became why Sinar became the monorail of choice as it really does as advertised for modularity, (extreme) versatility, ease of obtaining interchangeable parts and lots more. Historically, Arca and Sinar share manufacturing resources early on. If not for the help of the folks at Arca Swiss, there might not be a Sinar camera as known today. The folks at Arca Swiss helped lots in the production of the Sinar Norma. Ponder why Sinar became SO popular selling SO many monorail cameras above other brands.. It is more than marketing.

If you're wanting to go up to 5x7, suggest getting a 5x7 rear frame to fit your arca swiss monorail camera made with matching bellows. It does not need to be fancy, just functional.

While the current folder-lightweight view camera fashion appears to be the intrepid, it would never be the precise, durable, stable camera, versatile camera the arca swiss is. Add to this the question of lens boards for the current set of optics. IMO, intrepid's popularity is riding on the current fad of
folks curious and wanting to try LF with a perceived low cost new camera. The other on going repeat is to ditch it all and get a Sinar Norma with 4x5 and 5x7 backs. This allows 8x10 as an option if that becomes a need.


Bernice

hi agregoc, Mds88, Neil, Bernice and Ambrown31,
thank you very much for the inputs and suggestions. really appreciate them.
It's a really a shame that the Arca's promises of full modularity, versatility, etc. cannot be easily realized.
I guess I will look into the intrepid option.

regards,
Arun

[Ambrown31]

I think Arca-Swiss cameras are the best modular monorail cameras made. There is good support through Rod here in the US. The caveat is you have to purchase new and you have to be comfortable with the price point. At the end of the day they are very expensive, but all premium tools are. You do get what you pay for.

I just wanted to point out the used market is pretty small. You should just purchase what you need new. It seems like most people that purchase these cameras don't sell them.

[neil poulsen]

Been here, almost done this.. Decided to ditch the entire idea-project. 5x7 Arca Swiss cameras are mostly rare.






Started with a 5x7 arca swiss. Idea and goal being modify the front of the arca swiss to fit a Sinar 4x5 frame to allow using the Sinar shutter and Sinar lens boards. The project got as far as needing a special bellows to make it all go. The results of all this produced a camera no better, in many ways worst than a 5x7 Sinar Norma.

Limitations with the arca swiss, limited rail and fixed unless the folder rail is procured. This plus the bellows limits what lenses are possible to be used with the arca. To get the most out of wide angle lenses requires a bag bellows which is another special item.

Conclusion, the resulting arca swiss monorail is simply too limiting in too many ways. It might be perceived the arca swiss is light weight,
the resulting camera was not much lower weight and very possible heavier than the 5x7 Sinar Norma.


Bernice

Bernice,

From the photos, it looks like you were attempting to mount the Sinar shutter onto the rear of the front standard. But, you speak of mounting the Sinar shutter onto the front of the Arca Swiss, so I'm having a little trouble connecting the photos with what you've suggested in the text. But if indeed you were mounting the Sinar onto the front, all you needed was the standard 5x7 for that particular camera. So, how is it that you needed a "customized" bellows?

As for extension, your 40cm bench and rails should be able to achieve at least a 700mm total length. So, how is it that Arca Swiss rails are limited in this regard?

I can't really tell from the photo, it's possible that you had a single 40cm rail residing in your bench, versus two 20cm rails? If so, one could have cut that rail in half to achieve the 700mm extension, or combined it with another 40cm rail to achieve at least an 1100mm extension. But, there was no folder rail that was required in either case. Nor was there really a limitation in extension.

Mounting a Sinar shutter to an Arca Swiss camera my have required customization when you were engaged in that project. But, there may currently be a ready made solution. There are 3rd party adapters to mount a Sinar shutter onto a 141mm Arca, and there are adapters sold to mount a 141mm lensboard to a 171mm Arca Swiss camera. These two adapters may have done the trick.