according to the IRS the average American makes $36000
Yes, but aren't 5% of Americans millionaires ?
So why are photographs as art undersold and underappreciated in this country?
From my exchanges with colleagues there, I hear the situation is much worse in France, which has a culture of the word (and not of the image). Yet France prides in its support for culture and arts.
>as a culture we're more fascinated with football, NASCAR, and WWF, and getting the most bang for our buck at WalMart.
Michael, as sad as this commentary is, I think you nailed the trend of the average American mindset. I am curious if the Walmarts, sports etc, have influenced other countries as bad as the USA.
I find it interesting, in Picture Framing Magazine, almost every issue has a serious article dedicated to offering the small independent framer a tool set to fight-off the big box stores who have infiltrated every part of their markets, including custom framing, ready made frames, pre cut mats, finished framed art, etc. I feel, if there was a LF Magazine for fine art Photographers, it too would spend most its pages discussing how to turn photographic art into retail sales.
It's not only the Walmart mindset that has hurt the over all art market, but I also feel its the printing technologies that are hurting Photograhy as an artform. 20 years ago, the difference between a fine art photographic print and a poster was night vs. day. Today, that gap has narrowed considerbly. I have put fine art posters, next to fine art prints, and side by side, the average person sees only a mild difference. And, at further viewing distance, they sometimes notice no difference. (of course, a super high gloss print will have a different look, etc.) How much is that little difference worth? The 24x36" poster sells for $15 - $25 retail.... The day of grainy "Charlies Angels" posters of the 1970's are long over, and many fine art landscape photographers are capitilizing on the concept of the cited article, as they are pricing the same images they charge $800 for, now available for $15 - $25 through the mass market poster market.
The Lens Work magazine web site seems very professional and the articles seem very geared to what many of us do. I must have overlooked this publication in the past, but I have just subscribed thanks to this thread.
>>Yes, but aren't 5% of Americans millionaires ?
dunno that stat, but 4 years ago 80% of the wealth in the US was owned by 10% of the people, 70% was owned by 5%...
compared with 10% owning 54% in the UK
Julian
I'm one of those nuts who is selling Azo prints for $50. And, as Christopher speculated, the majority have been bought by other photographers. So what?
I've been selling for a year now. In that first year, I managed to sell enough to break even on my photography costs. I'm completely unknown in the art world. Never have been exhibited in any low-brow gallery, much less a high-brow gallery. Probably never will. Don't live in NYC nor San Francisco. Never went to art school. Never sold a piece of art in my life until a year ago. I'm still alive so there's no way I'm going to get the real big bucks that all the dead immortals rake in.
So what if I'm a chump? In this last week, I've sold nine prints. Two of the sales were for three-print portfolios. I turn that income into buying supplies for the current year. It may be nuts but I'm enjoying the hell out of it, keeping my photography self-sufficient, and getting work out on the street. And I don't own an Epson of any sort.
The more I read these threads, the more I appreciate Jensen's point. If $20 per print does it for him, that's his business. Holding out for a thousand is like saving yourself during the season games hoping for a Super Bowl game to go all out in. Probably ain't gonna happen no matter how pure the art is.
Yes, but aren't 5% of Americans millionaires ?
But wouldn't it be easier to sell to the remaining 95%? I think your odds of being successful would increase. My comments are pure speculation as I've yet to go out trying to sell my work via art shows, galleries, via the web whatever. It seems to make sense to me to lower your sights a bit and try selling to more of the masses then hoping to hit the lottery. If some of you out there command the price of thousands of dollars per print then you have accessed that 5%. But for the rest of us, such as an unknown as myself that would be an absurd way to start pricing and selling.
QT, I just looked at your pricing and it seems to me your prices are reasonable. I suspect you are not catering to the wealthiest out there, nor the average Joe on the street but somewhere in between. I think that's the area I'd like to start in.
You go Alex!
I bet your $450 (9X$50) beat a lot of people's art sales for the same week or for any week.
This is a really interesting thread - who would have thought of this last twist?
Is there more?
Alex, what size prints do you sell for $50? Do you have a web site?
I applaud your efforts, your common sense and your motivation to establish your a following. Your pricing today, may not reflect your pricing in 10 years. Nothing wrong with that approach. I agree with the other posters, it's not uncommon for photographers holding out for $4k per print, who wait many years to sell any work. Again, Congrats.
Saulius, go for it! You can't make a goal unless you take a shot.
Thanks for the encorougement Henry.
WG, these are mostly 8x10 Azo contact prints. I've sold a few 11x14 enlargements from 4x5 negatives. No website as of yet. All of my sales are from the auction site (75%) , seeing my work on APUG (24%) or personal contact (1%). Please e-mail me for more details if you like.
Please don't get the impression that I'm selling 9 prints per week all year. I wish I was but that wouldn't leave any time to photograph and print. There were some long dry spells last year. I also work a regular non-photography job.
Also, I'm flattered to sell to other photographers, especially ones that have done a lot better than myself, or whom I consider to be better than myself. That's some good peer recognition in my book.
A couple customers have said they were just beginning LF and bought a print from me because it was affordable and it provided them with an example to strive for. That's very satisfying! If buying a print from me brings a person into the LF analog fold, that helps all of us and I'm glad I did it.
My hat's off to anyone who can get $200 or more per print, anyone who makes a living at this, anyone who gets published, anyone who gets exhibited, anyone who gets collected. Its not easy no matter what level you are working at.
I figured since this discussion somewhat pertains to me, as a self-representing artist on Ebay who specializes in selling 8x10 AZO prints for $50.00...I would make a post.
When I first started selling my photography on Ebay...NOBODY PURCHASED ANY! However, after a few prints sold, my sales continued to rise over the next year. At first, prints would sell for the opening price of 50.00, but soon my print output became VERY high and I could hardly keep up with printing/matting/shipping and all the work the goes into selling your photography. At this point, people were starting to see the quality of work I produce and more collectors/galleries/museums were becoming interested. Very quickly, my opening 50.00 prices would be bid up above $200.00! Without me raising my prices, the market value of my prints went up over 400%! Within the course of 2005, I sold over 150 fine prints, not to mention a few portfolios which contained 20 prints each, selling at 2,500.00 each.
I have always believed in providing fine art photography at a reasonable price that people can afford. Even before Edward Weston passed away, he was still selling his prints for around 35.00! Of course, you could buy alot more for your buck back then...but the same ideals still apply today... To provide fine art photography at a reasonable price that anyone can afford.
However, because of recent collector demand for my prints...I can no longer sell them for such a low price, but my prices are still well below what other photographers are asking today. I expect 2006 to be a great year for print sales and I will continue to offer prints on Ebay for a reasonable price. I am VERY greatful for everyone who has purchased prints from me and I thank them from my heart.
Reagards,
Ryan McIntosh
www.RyanMcIntosh.net
"I'm guessing that you are in NYC, which is likely the center of "art photography" in the US in terms of galleries and customers. I'd think conditions there are not indicative of the rest of the world."
but it has equivalents in cosmopolitan centers throughout the world ... london, paris, tokyo, milan, los angeles, barcelona, etc. etc... which all represent tremendous concentrations of the population.
"And it could be that those people paying $10,000 for large c-prints thumbtacked to gallery walls are indeed the "fools" being fished for in Jensen's article. I'm not saying they are for sure."
They could be. but not if they love the work $10,000 worth. or if it goes for $20,000 at auction next year!
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