affordible wide angle for 8x10?

[Matt Miller]

Dan,

I have a 165 Angulon that covers 8x10 nicely. I've used it with rise and the bellows stopped me before the image circle did.

[John Kasaian]

Another low cost option to consider is the WA Cooke, but I'll stand by the 159mm WA Wolly "yellow dot."

[Jim Galli]

John said "Another low cost option to consider is the WA Cooke"

John, do me a favor and point me towards ANY and every Cooke VIIb that is low cost please! Especially the trashy little 222mm!! They're no good for nothin' but I'd still like to put a roof over one's head. jg

[Michael Gudzinowicz]

[pre]
Read the other replies - there are only a few "cheap" wide 8x10 lenses.

I've pasted in a list of wide to moderate 8x10 lenses below, so I can point
to it in the archive in the future. Some of the newer Schneider lenses
aren't included, so see their website (not cheap).

"Modern" 8x10 lenses; post-1945; coated - most MC.

FL F# Model E/G Shttr IC mm IC deg Movements (in)
84 22 Wisner Hypergon 2/2 n.a. 462 140 3.4; 3.8
150 8 Nikkor SW 8/4 1 398 106 1.9; 2.3
150 5.6 Schneider Super Symmar XL 8/6 1 384 104 1.6; 1.9
155 6.8 Rodenstock Grandagon N 6/4 1 383 102 1.6; 1.9
155 6.8 Sinar Sinaron W n.a. 1 383 102 1.6; 1.9
159 12.5 Wollensak Extreme WA Ser 3a n.a. n.a. 379 100 1.5; 1.8
165 8 Goerz Super-Dagor WA 6/2 n.a. 393 100 1.8; 2.1
165 8 Schneider Super Angulon 6/4 1, 3 393 100 1.8; 2.1
178 6.8 Goerz Dagor 6/2 n.a. 338 87 0.5; 0.7
184 18 B&L Extreme WA Protar V n.a. n.a. 368 90 1.2; 1.5
190 6.3 Kodak Wide Field Ektar 4/4 n.a. 348 85 0.8; 0.9
200 6.8 Rodenstock Grandagon N 8/4 3 494 102 4.0; 4.5
210 8 Schneider Super Angulon 6/4 1, 3 501 100 4.2; 4.7
210 6.8 Goerz Dagor 6/2 n.a. 399 87 2.0; 2.3
210 6.8 Kyvyx APO-Kyvytar n.a. 1 385 85 1.6; 1.9
210 6.8 Schneider Angulon 6/2 3 385 85 1.6; 1.9
210 5.6 Schneider Super Symmar HM 8/6 3 359 81 1.0; 1.2
210 5.6 Fujinon W 6/5 1 352 80 0.9; 1.0
210 5.6 Rodenstock APO Sironar W 7/5 3 352 80 0.9; 1.0
210 6.8 Schneider Symmar 6/2 n.a. 352 80 0.9; 1.0
210 5.6 Sinar Sinaron WS n.a. 3 352 80 0.9; 1.0
210 9 Computar F9 6/4 1 322 75 0.1; 0.2
241 6.8 Goerz Dagor 6/2 n.a. 456 87 3.2; 3.7
240 6.8 Kyvyx APO-Kyvytar n.a. 3 440 85 2.9; 3.3
240 6.8 Schneider Symmar 6/2 n.a. 403 80 2.0; 2.4
240 9 Computar F9 6/4 3 375 76 1.4; 1.7
240 5.6 Rodenstock APO Sironar S 6/4 3 375 76 1.4; 1.7
240 5.6 Schneider APO Symmar 6/4 1 355 73 0.9; 1.1
240 5.6 Calumet Caltar II 6/4 3 349 72 0.8; 1.0
240 8 Docter Apo-Germinar W 8/8 3 349 72 0.8; 1.0
240 5.6 Sinar Sinaron S n.a. 3 349 72 0.8; 1.0
240 6.8 Goerz Golden Dagor 6/2 n.a. 342 71 0.6; 0.8
240 5.6 Calumet Caltar S n.a. n.a. 336 70 0.5; 0.6
240 5.6 Calumet Caltar SII n.a. n.a. 336 70 0.5; 0.6
240 9 Fujinon AS 6/4 0 336 70 0.5; 0.6
240 6.8 Goerz Gold Dot Dagor 6/2 n.a. 336 70 0.5; 0.6
240 5.6 Nikkor W 6/4 3 336 70 0.5; 0.6
240 5.6 Rodenstock APO Sironar N 6/4 3 336 70 0.5; 0.6
240 5.6 Rodenstock Sironar 6/4 3 336 70 0.5; 0.6
240 5.6 Rodenstock Sironar N 6/4 3 336 70 0.5; 0.6
240 5.6 Schneider Symmar 6/4 n.a. 336 70 0.5; 0.6
240 5.6 Schneider Symmar S 6/4 3 336 70 0.5; 0.6
240 5.6 Schneider Symmar S MC 6/4 3 336 70 0.5; 0.6
240 9 Schneider Graphic Claron 6/2 n.a. 324 68 0.2; 0.2

"Old" 8x10 lenses; pre-1940; most are uncoated.

Manufacturer and Model f/# FL Deg E/G Min. FL
Range To Cover
Goerz Hypergon Ser X 22;33 60-120 mm 140 2/2 59 mm or 2.3"
Rodenstock Pantagonal 18 85-750 mm 125 3/2 85 mm or 3.3"
Rodenstock Perigon 12 90-750 mm 110 4/2 114 mm or 4.5"
Watson Holostigmat 11 3-9" 110 6/2 114 mm or 4.5"
Zeiss Protar 5 18 40-970 mm 110 4/2 114 mm or 4.5"
Boyer Perle 9 60-145 mm 105 - 125 mm or 4.9"
Schneider Angulon 6.8 3.5-8.25" 105 6/2 125 mm or 4.9"
Aldis Ser 3a 7.7 5-11" 100 - 136 mm or 5.4"
Dallmeyer Wide-angle Anast. 11 3-9" 100 - 136 mm or 5.4"
Hugo Meyer W.A. Aristostigmat 9 3-11" 100 4/4 136 mm or 5.4"
Steinheil Orthostigmat E 12 70-250 mm 100 6/2 136 mm or 5.4"
Wray W.A. Anast. 16 4-7" 100 4/2 136 mm or 5.4"
Zeiss Protar 4 12.5 - 100 4/2 136 mm or 5.4"
Zeiss Protar 3a 9 75-410 mm 97 4/2 144 mm or 5.7"
Reichert Neukombinar 6.8 60-360 mm 95 - 149 mm or 5.9"
Ross Wide-angle 16 3-12" 95 - 149 mm or 5.9"
Wollensak Extreme W.A. 12.5 4.5-13" 95 - 149 mm or 5.9"
B & L Ext. Wide, Ser 5 18 3.5-37" 90 4/2 163 mm or 6.4"
Beck Isostigmar 4 6.3 3.5-19" 90 5/5 163 mm or 6.4"
Goerz Dagor Ser 4 11 300-1200 mm 90 6/2 163 mm or 6.4"
Hugo Meyer Aristostigmat 6.3 1.5-20" 90 4/4 163 mm or 6.4"
Schulze Euryplan 2 6 60-600 mm 90 6/4 163 mm or 6.4"
Taylor, T. & H. Angelic, Ser 7b 6.5 3.25-12" 90 - 163 mm or 6.4"
Wollensak Velostigmat 3 9.5 4.5-9" 90 - 163 mm or 6.4"
Wray Universal Anast. 6.8 3.5-7" 90 6/2 163 mm or 6.4"
Boyer Beryl 6.8 50-250 mm 85 6/2 177 mm or 7."
Goerz Dagor Ser 3 6.8 40-900 mm 85 6/2 177 mm or 7."
Goerz Pantar 6.3 86-276 mm 85 8/2 177 mm or 7."
Hugo Meyer Euryplan 6 2-24" 85 6/4 177 mm or 7."
Laake Dialytar 6.3 75-210 mm 85 4/4 177 mm or 7."
Simon Octanar 6.3 90-600 mm 85 8/2 177 mm or 7."
Steinheil Orthostigmat B 6.8 50-600 mm 85 6/2 177 mm or 7."
Hugo Meyer Dbl.Aristostigmat 6.8 40-900 mm 82 8/2 187 mm or 7.4"
Reichert Combinar 6.3 90-240 mm 82 8/2 187 mm or 7.4"
Schulze Euryplan 3 7.7 60-600 mm 82 6/4 187 mm or 7.4"
Busch Lenkar 9 65-300 mm 80 - 194 mm or 7.6"
Busch Omnar 7.7 70-550 mm 80 4/4 194 mm or 7.6"
Ross Wide-angle-Xpres 4 4-20" 80 6/4 194 mm or 7.6"
Schneider Symmar 6.8 2-14" 80 6/2 194 mm or 7.6"
Schulze Euryplan 1 4.5 90-320 mm 80 6/4 194 mm or 7.6"
Steinheil Orthostigmat D 10 300-900 mm 80 6/2 194 mm or 7.6"
Steinheil Orthostigmat D 8 60-250 mm 80 6/2 194 mm or 7.6"
Suter Anast. Ser 1 6.8;7.2 620-900 mm 80 8/2 194 mm or 7.6"
Voigtlander Collinear 4 12.5 4-12" 80 6/2 194 mm or 7.6"

[/pre]

[CXC]

I recently went looking for the same thing, and it came down to the SA 165mm and the Wollensack 159mm. The SA, as of 2 weeks ago, was relatively available, with prices ranging from $300 to $750. I only found one Wollensack, which I ended up buying for $200 on ePay. Hasn't arrived yet.

I opted for the Wollensack based on compactness and price.

I also located one Dagor 6 1/2", but at $900 it was out of my price range.

[William Mortensen]

The Wollensak 159mm comes in an f/12.5 and f/9.5 version. The f/12.5 has more coverage, and both have a limiting screw that can be removed to allow them to open past the indicated maximum aperture for focusing. (Mine has this mod, and I can't detect any focus shift.) Reasonably sharp, very small and light, better coverage w/ the F/12.5 than most lenses in this range w/ a 379mm IC. I wouldn't part with mine.

My 150mm Konica GR-II definitely doesn't cover 8x10 at infinity, although others often claim theirs does. (That's what puts the "GRRRRR..." in GR-II.)

[Ernest Purdum]

Regarding your second question, actual enlarging lenses that would cover 8X10 are too big physically to go in front of a shutter with timed speeds, although a "Packard" or similar can be used. They are usually not at their best when used at distances exceeding that of between lens and enlarger table, so can't be recommended. There are, however, several "process" lenses which are relatively tolerant of variations in distance. Their coverage is narrow and their apertures rather small. The construction is one positive and one negative element on each side of the diaphragm, the "dialyte" pattern. The "Artar" by Goerz and the "Repro Claron" by Schneider are the most frequently seen. Because of the eight air-to-glass surfaces, coating is particularly important. Because they are now not ordinarily used in reproduction work, they are available at quite modest prices. Some more recent designs use two more elements in order to obtain wider coverage. The Schneider "G Claron" is the most desired and therefore highest priced of these, largely because their cells will fit directly into a modern shutter. Others, though, some of which are available at very little cost, are the Rodenstock "Apo Gerogon", the Konica "Hexanon GRII" the Staeble "Ultragon" (often brand-named as Eskofot) and some lenses by JML There are others.

There are other barrel mounted lenses which are not all that expensive. Recently on eBay some comparatively recently made Tessar type lenses from Russia have been showing up at very small cost. Again, though, these are big and could only go in front of a shutter which lacks timed speeds.

This is a rather complicated subject. The website www.skgrimes.com may be helpful to you. Should you have additional questions, this forum is always available.

Going back to your first question, I concur with several others that the 159mm Wollensak would be a good choice. You might, of course find something else a good price, but I think the Wollensak provides the most cost/worth benefit amongst those frequently available.

[Dan Dozer]

In response to John Kasaian and Jim Galli's comments about the WA Cooke - I have a 6" series VIIa that according to Vademecum should cover 8 x 10 (90 degrees coverage). I picked it up a year or two ago for around $30 on Ebay. However, I haven't ever gotten around to actually taking any images with it yet (don't have a mounting ring). I have roughly put it on the back of my camera and it appears to cover everything.

[Jon Wilson]

You just have to keep your eyes open. I have been fortunate to pick recently a super nice SA 165mm for less than $120, a Gundlach 8x10 Radar Ext. WA f16 in a betax shutter $78 (have only seen a couple for sale), and a Wollensak f9.5 159mm for around $150. You might also consider the older 180mm dagor f6.8 in a volute shutter. It covers 8x10 and if I recall correctly, I picked mine up from Jim Galli for not much more than $100.

Also, as mentioned above in this thread, there are several other lens which are in barrels which are suppose to cover 8x10 and some which actually do. They can be obtained for less than $150 and are coated, but you will find they are difficult if not impossible to get installed in a modern shutter without considerable expense.

I have not been able to try the SA 165mm lens yet, but when I do, I hope to narrow the field and get the others back in the used LF market. I just have too many lens.

[Herb Cunningham]

I have the 159 WA f12.5 wolly- I am going to sell it on APUG shortly.