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Thread: Do you ever get the idea that people that spend...

  1. #11

    Do you ever get the idea that people that spend...

    Thank you all for an interesting discussion.

    Then don't buy such products. Nobody is forcing you.

    In a libertarian sense, yes, no-one is forcing me, especially since photography is a career. However this reminds me of the computer graphics industry, where the mere appearance of having older software is a detriment to a person, even if it may have the same function. You see, this is the key to my gripe, that the libertarian sense, no you don't have to buy things, however that doesn't work in a magic bullet chasing society.

    Suppose a person existed who took enormous pleasure in researching, selecting, purchasing and using the finest camera there is, by whatever definition you want. Imagine that he never in his entire life produced a picture that required anywhere near the full capabilities of that camera, or that you or anybody else considered to be important or memorable in any way, but also that he died happy and satisfied with the experiences he had with the camera. Is there something wrong with that?

    There's nothing wrong with enjoying that, and it's his perrogative. We have a great deal of freedom, and we're also free to be pretty unproductive too.

    Huh! Tell that to the US car makers. During the 70s they lost their market share to the Japanese automakers. Why? A better alternative was available to customers cheaply and they choose it. Can't say that people were so used to mediocrity that they could not recognize a better alternative.

    Yes but didnt several people have to die in a flaming pinto first before that shift began? I think that people do eventually come around.. but it takes a while. For instance, we don't know whether archival inkjet inks cdr's or dvd-rs will last, any more than we know whether RC paper prints will last. But if either of these things poop out, we'll have lost hundreds of thousands of pictures to them by that time -if and when they do.

    Of course there's no profit running around like Chicken Little, but it's food for thought anyway, so I think.

    Some do, others don't. Some chase the magic-bullet while others work on their aim. A superior tool helps a skilled user achieve their outcome. Appreciation of a superior tool doesn't grant it supremacy over the tool-user. A master marksman isn't hitting anything if their muzzle is crooked. At the same time, a hammer and chisel in Michelangelo's hands produce far different results than the same hammer and chisel in my hands!

    Agreed.

    Cheers!

  2. #12
    Resident Heretic Bruce Watson's Avatar
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    Do you ever get the idea that people that spend...

    vic,

    I think you spend too much time worrying about what other people think. Stop worrying and get out and make some photographs. If you have to worry, worry about your art, and let other people worry about theirs. Life is too short to do otherwise.

    Bruce Watson

  3. #13
    darr's Avatar
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    Do you ever get the idea that people that spend...

    "I think you spend too much time worrying about what other people think. Stop worrying and get out and make some photographs. If you have to worry, worry about your art, and let other people worry about theirs. Life is too short to do otherwise."

    Well said!

  4. #14

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    Do you ever get the idea that people that spend...

    For every person spending $500/month on equipment, is a guy crowing about how he is using his grandfather's Graflex and lenses fashioned from flea market binoculars and printing 16x20 prints in a 21""x13" suitcase darkroom. See it all balances out.

  5. #15

    Do you ever get the idea that people that spend...

    Who says that I'm worried about other people?

    I am concerned about the consumeristic system that is true. I don't see what's wrong with that. I also don't see what's wrong about complaining that people are unobjective in their judgement calls because they have committed their wallet to them. It's unscientific isn't it? People come to this forum for good unbiased information on Large Format right? Is it wrong to be concerned about that?

    Remember that I mention how I prefer to do things a certain way, but I don't indicate that it's the right way or the only way. I don't advocate myself to be superior in any post. There is no crow here, -unless you're eating it. You've read the part about where I said that I preferred doing things a certain way, and missed the part about both having digital and planning on buying it in the future. It's not my intention to raise the digital/analogue debate, I'm more interested in the way that we as large format photographers think when our cameras are often not much more than light tight boxes with moveable ends.

    It's hilarious the kind of response that I've had. It almost makes me think that there's a certain chord of truth to what I've posted.

    Cheers

  6. #16

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    Do you ever get the idea that people that spend...

    I have spent most of my adult life in a business that supplies high-end architectural products. A lot of my time was spent researching current market trends. There are a certain amount of designers that still want an "old school" or retro look in their design, but the market generally follows distinct patterns. Since I am in the business to make money, am I likely to spend all my time and effort to produce a product for the minority just because they still exist? There will always be the group that wants this or that particular type of medium for their work, but if the majority of the spending group is going to digital or whatever the next step is, it is highly unlikely that the supplier is going to continue trying to appease the minority. I do happen to drive a 1967 VW with an 8-track tape player, shoot whole-plate and 8x10, BUT I also own a digital and a 2005 high-end auto that talks back at me more than my wife does. I do not expect Detroit to continue producing autos that the majority of the public is not interested in purchasing. I do not hold that against them. Nor do I expect the camera and film/paper producers to continue producing and marketing product for the minority. Monetarily it does not make sense. I applaud people like CJ and others that take the time to learn wet-plate, daguerrian, etc, and the process necessary to produce their own medium. The majority public wants more, quicker. Hence the disk camera, aps, digital. If low-end is where you are at, cool. Go out in the garage and dig out your old pc-xt with the dual 5 1/4 floppy drive. It isn't a personal vendetta against any group, nor is it planned obsolesence. It's just business.

  7. #17

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    Do you ever get the idea that people that spend...

    vic Quite a bit go far out of their way to defend the stuff that they use?

    And you are above such posing, ...

    I'd prefer to take pics with just me, my military speed graphic, optar 127mm f4.5, two grafmatic backs filled with fp4 and the snow outdoors.

    ... nope, I guess you aren't.

    Call me a purist

    You ain't a purist. Hell, you shoot digital, too. That's as pure as cross-dressing.

    or an old fart (actually I'm jsut 30) but [...]

    I've been thirty twice. Hell, last time I took the lens off my rangefinder was before you were born.

  8. #18

    Do you ever get the idea that people that spend...

    Have we given too much supremacy to the tool?

    Nope......If you hike 5 miles to shoot a camera that weights 8 pound is much better than one that weights 25 pounds, if you make your living making table top and product shots, a Sinar P2 is a much better choice than a Deardorff. As I said choosing the right tool can save you a lot of grief and save you money in the long run. If you make a living doing magazine spreads and fashion shots a digital camera and set up is in inavaluable.

    OTOH. there is nothing wrong with wanting to own a beautiful camera, even if it is expensive. For those who can afford them I say good for them.

  9. #19

    Do you ever get the idea that people that spend...

    I'd prefer to take pics with just me, my military speed graphic, optar 127mm f4.5, two grafmatic backs filled with fp4 and the snow outdoors.

    ... nope, I guess you aren't.


    well.. once again, that's just what I prefer, not what I think that everybody else should use.....The reason why I put this out is that it's hideously cheap.

    I've been thirty twice. Hell, last time I took the lens off my rangefinder was before you were born.

    Yeah I find myself in an interesting position since I'm not young, but I'm not old. One thing is for sure.. I've just become a high school teacher, and when I see all of the young teenagers running around, damn do I feel old. Yet in the grand scheme of things I'm still pretty young.

    Actually, I don't call myself a purist either.

    Nope......If you hike 5 miles to shoot a camera that weights 8 pound is much better than one that weights 25 pounds, if you make your living making table top and product shots, a Sinar P2 is a much better choice than a Deardorff. As I said choosing the right tool can save you a lot of grief and save you money in the long run. If you make a living doing magazine spreads and fashion shots a digital camera and set up is in inavaluable.

    Yeah I agree with the aspect of choosing something for function, especially when it comes down to business. I just don't like peeing contests with cash.

    Cheers.

  10. #20

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    Do you ever get the idea that people that spend...

    "As I said choosing the right tool can save you a lot of grief and save you money in the long run"

    Driving a nail in the wall with a pipe wrench may work, but a hammer does it much better. Shooting the race at Indy might work with a 7x17, but...

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