8x10 opinions - Phillips Compact II or Wehman?

[CXC]

These are 2 great cameras, you won't go wrong with either one. Here's what this happy Wehman owner (and never-Phillips-toucher) thinks are some important issues. Phillips users, correct any errors, please.

1. Bellows length. If you shoot with a 600mm or do macro stuff, Wehman wins.

2. Bag bellows. W. doesn't offer one, and the supplied bellows is restrictive with very short lenses like a 110mm. Whereas Phillips...?

3. Bomb-proofness. W. absolutely has it, I believe more than P.

4. Rear swing. W. has geared asymmetrical rear swing, a real luxury in a reasonably priced camera. If you aren't already, it will make a (rear) swinger out of you.

4. Front shift and swing. W. controls both with a single knob that is okay in a pinch, but is less than optimal. If P. has a more convenient design, and you use such front moves, this could matter.

5. Price, availability, esthetics, etc. You decide.

One thing I have discovered about W. is that if you stick to shorter lenses (in my case up to 355mm), you can leave the front extension plate in the car, and go shooting without it, which lowers the weight and bulk, and also makes the camera faster and easier to use.

Best of luck with your decision.

[CXC]

Oops, sorry about the two #4.'s...

[Steve Hamley]

Anyone having trouble getting to Bruce Wehman's web site? I haven't been able to connect for several days.

Steve

[Oren Grad]

No problems getting into Bruce's website last night.

CXC, on the Phillips as well, front swing and shift are controlled by a single knob, as are front rise and tilt, though tilt can be fixed at zero with a little twist-tab.

[martin_4668]

I have seen a picture of the upcoming Arca 8x10 Misura....very nice.
metal fieldcamera with 110-500mm extension and only 3,8kg.....I cant wait to see it.
Arca expect to be able deliver 1Q next year.
www.photografica.com

[CXC]

Oren's info should be seriously considered by anyone who uses front tilt and rise simultaneously. As gravity comes into play, it can be tough to get one right without clobbering the other. The only excuse for this combo is the desire for absolute minimum weight, which is why it is present in the Phillips, as well as my Gowland.

Presumably this also means that front tilts are on axis on the Phillips, another, admittedly minor, difference from the Wehman's base tilts.

[Oren Grad]

Yes, front tilts are axis tilts in the Phillips design. I prefer axis to base tilts, so that suits me. Ideally I'd prefer to have tilt separated from rise, but for my typical uses it's not a big deal and not remotely enough of a problem to outweigh the advantages of the Phillips design for me overall. But those whose photographic tasks require making very precise and repeatable adjustments of both parameters might be better off with a different camera.

[CXC]

Oren, if you are still listening, could you enumerate the Phillips design advantages which you find valuable? All I know is that it is light and stiff; what else? And what are the longest and shortest lenses you use?

[Oren Grad]

CXC, the Phillips is really intended for general-purpose field work with lenses in the wide to normal range - all of the design tradeoffs were made with that in mind, and that's how I use it.

What I most like to photograph is general outdoor scenes from close to midrange. On the one hand, I rarely do ultra closeup work, and on the other, I don't care for the overtly compressed look produced by long lenses. My favorite focal length for 8x10 is 270, although I'll often use a 240 or a 300 instead because there's no 270 available in the lens type that I prefer, the Apo-Sironar-N/S. On the long side, I will rarely use even a 360, let alone anything longer than that. On the short end, I have a 155 which I rarely use - it's a problem solver for extreme special situations only.

When working in the field, I like the fact that the Phillips is rugged and doesn't have to handled with kid gloves. I like the ample direct front rise, very important when you tend to shoot wide on a squarish format like 8x10 - I can't recall the last time I had to fuss with front and rear tilts because I ran out of direct rise. And finally, I do have trouble carrying much weight. So for my purposes, the Phillips design is pretty close to ideal. My only real dislike - and it's a mild one - is that because the front standard floats free when the camera is folded and needs to be screwed into a socket in the bed during setup, the Phillips is a bit slower and fussier to set up than, say, my 5x7 Nagaoka, which I can snap open in seconds with my eyes closed. But, of course, there's no comparison in ruggedness and stability, and I think the tradeoff is well worth it for 8x10.

For users who are happy with one of the small lenses in Copal 1 that can cover 8x10 - for example, I've used my Phillips Compact with the 270 G-Claron and the 300 Geronar - it's possible to assemble a backpacking kit that's ideal for hiking around for a few hours at a time. The camera, with one small lens, three holders, meter, focusing hood, and a sturdy 8 or 9 pound tripod adds up to a very functional outfit that weighs far less than many folks here routinely lug around in a 4x5 kit. In assembling that sort of outfit, the weight difference between a Phillips and a Deardorff is huge, and you can't make it up by paring back any other component in a kit that's minimalist to begin with.

For those who are into longer lenses, I'll add that the Phillips design maintains decent rigidity all the way out to maximum extension. But obviously, if you like to use really long lenses or work very close with moderately long lenses, you're going to be out of luck. For my own purposes, I've never run out of bellows even with my Compact, which has a bit less bellows draw than the current Compact II.

[tim atherton]

I'd add just a couple of things to Oren's comments.

I follow much the same set-up - using a 159/165mm quite frequently with the CompactII - but most often used lenses are probably 210/250mm.

However, I also use a 450mm Fuji with it and have had no problem. I've done some reasonable closeups (not 1:1 stuff - but fairly close) it's not overly awkward, though you are reaching the limits of the bellows (and they are shorter on the Explorer).

A 300mm or 370mm lens is perfectly fine

Other than that, Oren is spot on in characterising the Phillips