TF-4 vs. TF-5 for FP4+ Developed in Pyrocat HD?

[Andrew O'Neill]

You do not need to use TF-4 or TF-5. I've been using Ilford MG Rapid fixer with Pyrocato-HD for years, with zero loss of stain. Check out a video I made several months ago. Skip to the 6 minute mark...

[Gary L. Quay]

I used both in parallel over the summer, and now have switched over to TF5 entirely. I see no difference whatsoever in the pyro negs. And why would anyone pour spent fixer back into the jug? Or why would you omit a real stop bath?

It isn't spent. I use a test solution to determine when fixer is spent. The yellow, I was surmising, could be the pyro stain coming off in the fixer. I don't know for sure, which is why I was asking.

[Gary L. Quay]

The yellow tint you are seeing is not stain being stripped from the negative, it is simply carried-over developer oxidizing in the fix. A real stop bath and a water rinse (not really necessary) will prevent this, but it's not damaging to the fix.

If you are using hypo clear on your negatives, that's a possible source of your problem. Hutchings recommends not using a wash aid on pyro negatives. I haven't really tested it, though. I simply develop, stop, fix, rinse and wash for 30 minutes. Never a problem and always good stain.

I use HCA, so that may be the issue. I will omit it next time, and move back to a stop bath. Thanks!

[Gary L. Quay]

You do not need to use TF-4 or TF-5. I've been using Ilford MG Rapid fixer with Pyrocato-HD for years, with zero loss of stain. Check out a video I made several months ago. Skip to the 6 minute mark...

Thanks! I'll check it out.

[Andrew O'Neill]

Really? I've using Fujifilm's hypo clearing agent, QuickWash, for years and I've never noticed any stripping of stain. Mind you, that's the only HCA that I've ever used...

[Michael R]

In general unless really short on water a hypo clearing agent adds little value to film washing. That said, a hypo clearing agent should have no effect on stain. The active ingredient is sodium sulfite, which is present in at minimum the same concentration in fixer, so you cannot avoid it post-development anyway.

Regarding fixers, there is no necessity to use formulary products. TF-5 is a fine fixer but there is no problem using any other standard fixer - preferably a rapid fixer. The nice thing about TF-5 is it should have low odour as it is near neutral, but there are other options. Incidentally it is also perfectly ok (and generally advisable) to use a stop bath.

[Doremus Scudder]

Michael,

Good to know. My source was Hutchings' book about pyro; I've never tested whether a wash aid actually reduces stain in PMK negs. I don't use a wash aid for film anyway, so never really bothered with checking. It seems like there are several bits of misinformation in The Book of Pyro.

Best,

Doremus

[Tin Can]

Anecdotal

All

Every one of us has variations

But sone shout

Louder

[Drew Wiley]

One of the big advantages of TF4 and TF5 is that these wash out quite efficiently, especially in the case of film, and there is absolutely no reason to add a wash aid. These two specific fixers also remove any residual anti-halation dye better than conventional fixers.

Gordon Hutchings slightly modified his methodology over time, but most conspicuously between the first and second versions of his PMK handbook.

Pyrogallol is a permanently tanning developer, not just a stain like an ordinary dye.

[Michael R]

The tanning (cross linking of gelatin) action and dye formation are separate reactions, although both involving the oxidation products of the developing agent

My copy of The Book of Pyro is signed by Hutchings. Can I sell it to you? Collectors item! Or maybe they were all signed.

One of the big advantages of TF4 and TF5 is that these wash out quite efficiently, especially in the case of film, and there is absolutely no reason to add a wash aid. These two specific fixers also remove any residual anti-halation dye better than conventional fixers.

Gordon Hutchings slightly modified his methodology over time, but most conspicuously between the first and second versions of his PMK handbook.

Pyrogallol is a permanently tanning developer, not just a stain like an ordinary dye.