First 4x10 development - more uneven development

[Luis-F-S]

Perfectly clear skies make for nice linear gradients. The slightest problem is really visible. Clear skies are one of the real tests of your darkroom technique.

I could never hit the mark with trays. So I tried BTZS tubes, and still had problems. When I finally moved to a Jobo with a 3010 tank, I got perfectly even skies with no visible artifacts at all. Photograph after photograph after photograph.

Pretty much why I process in tanks on hangers or in tubes. You can also see why we recommend folks to start out in 4x5 and not a larger format. Wastes less film when you make the stupid mistakes that we've all made! You've been given enough suggestions above with the information you provided to hopefully get you onto the right track. L

[dgc]

Many thanks for all your informative responses - very much appreciated.

Here are some more details:
1. I cut the film down from 8x10 into 4x10 sheets using a trimmer - so although undertaken in the dark there is potential for light leak, somewhere !
2. I used an orange filter and NDx64 filter resulting in an exposure of 50 seconds.
3. I understand stock ID-11 to be good for developing up to 10 films.
4. I compensated for prior developing activity by adding 1 minute to the development time of 8min 30 secs = 9 min 30 secs. Agitation was continuous for 1st minute and then approx. 10 secs every 1 minute of gentle sloshing from side to side. No pre-soak.
5. I processed the film in an 8x10 tray - I should have used a bigger one !

koraks - your points are noted, bigger tray and continuous agitation.
Vaughn - The emulsion was facing up, but I did struggle to get the film out of the holder and into the tray.
Peter Collins - see 4. above. Ok, this is something I will try. I understand that grain size with longer development is less of an issue with large format film, not that FP4 may be that much of an issue anyway.
dentkimkerry & Christopher Barrett - see 3. above. You are right though, it is not worth skimping on chemicals when considering the price of LF film.
Doremus Scudder - see all above! I did provide scant information, I was hoping that it may be a fairly obvious problem to more experienced darkroom users. You are quite right the variables in developing requires all information to be provided.
Mark Sampson - I am not aware of Kodalk, definitely worth considering. Though I would be worried about scratching the negatives if I developed two or more at the same time. Do you place one emulsion face down and the other up ? How long do you pre-soak ?
Bruce Watson - interesting and heartening to know we all go through the same learning curve ! I do wonder how an even coating of developer is over the film as it is developed, maybe my agitation was a little more rigorous than it should have been.
Luis F-S - I used the tray method (using HC-110 1:32) on the same day for some 4x5 and they turned out ok. I also use the Mod 54 and most negatives appear ok, though I have only taken about 25 4x5s !


Thanks again to all who responded. David

[Doremus Scudder]

David,

Now that we know more about what you did, here are my suggestions for improving unevenness due to agitation (others will likely have other, different suggestions):

First, do a pre-soak, 3 minutes minimum, to get the emulsion really soaked up. This attenuates the speed of developer infusion and gives you more time to get the film into the developing tray and totally immersed and begin agitation.

Use an 11x14 tray with plenty of developer. I'd use 1.5-2 liters. FWIW, there's nothing wrong with reusing developer and compensating for the loss in activity, but it is a bit hit-or-miss depending on the density of each individual neg. I'd likely use ID-11 1+1 and reuse it a time or two for single sheets, compensating for time for each subsequent sheet, or batch develop several sheets at once.

I think your agitation scheme is inadequate. Personally, I'd lift the neg out of the tray, rotate it end-for-end and re-immerse it to agitate. I'd do that continuously for the first 60 seconds (with your large negatives) and then once every 15 seconds thereafter till the end of development, being careful not to push the negative down into the developer (caused turbulence), rather gently sinking it using the balls of the fingers of both hands. If you want to stick with tray rocking, try lifting rather vigorously from each corner (gently up and quickly down) in an irregular manner (so as not to set up standing waves anywhere). Let the film float around freely in the tray. I'd do this in rather rapid succession for the first minute and then a few times around the tray every 30 seconds thereafter. I think just rocking from side to side is part of your problems here.

Your developing time seems long enough, so your problems are likely more agitation related. Develop a test negative with some featureless expanses in them with the above and see if that helps.

As for possible light leaks: do the inspections and try to give yourself a bit of time in the dark so your eyes can adjust before cutting, loading or unloading film. Look around before taking film out for possible leaks.

Best,

Doremus

[C Henry]

Hi David,

I'm a Welshman (living in England) that uses 4x10" and tray develops individual sheets with a similar method.

I use 650ml of developer (Pyrocat HD) in 12x10" trays, agitate, by lifting each side in a 10 second cycle ( a full clockwise cycle) - that is 24 lifts in the first minute, and then 4 per minute thereafter. I presoak my film (FP4+) for a minute or so.

[Mark Sampson]

David, for many years Kodak offered a chemical they called "Kodalk Balanced Alkali". Note the L in the product name. It is an ingredient in many developers. A 1% solution as your presoak bath will keep multiple sheets of film from sticking together when first wetted. I did regularly process 12 sheets of 4x5 in a tray; now I think 8 is safer (as far as handling goes). I don't think EK sells Kodalk any more; I buy "Balanced Alkali" from Photographer's Formulary in the USA. Not sure where you'll find it in the UK but it must be available from someone.

[Merg Ross]

David, for many years Kodak offered a chemical they called "Kodalk Balanced Alkali". Note the L in the product name. It is an ingredient in many developers. A 1% solution as your presoak bath will keep multiple sheets of film from sticking together when first wetted. I did regularly process 12 sheets of 4x5 in a tray; now I think 8 is safer (as far as handling goes). I don't think EK sells Kodalk any more; I buy "Balanced Alkali" from Photographer's Formulary in the USA. Not sure where you'll find it in the UK but it must be available from someone.

Excellent tip, Mark. I still have a small supply of Kodalk and use the 1% solution in a 5 minute presoak. I routinely tray develop 12 sheets (4x5) at a time. A substitute for Kodalk is marketed as Sodium Metaborate.

[Huub]

I cut the film down from 8x10 into 4x10 sheets using a trimmer - so although undertaken in the dark there is potential for light leak, somewhere !

When there are no obvious light leaks in your darkroom, any that remain would only add just a tiny bit to the base fog of the film as long as light doesn't hit the film directly. Furthermore: any uneveness caused by some kind of light leak before or after the film was put in a holder should expand into the rebates. To me those in the examples you show look pretty even.

[dgc]

Doremus - brilliant stuff ! The underlying message from you and all others is bigger trays and more agitation.
Carwyn - I was recently introduced to your work in a communication by Mike Walker and I am really enjoying your photographs. I am struggling to work out 24 lifts in 1 minute - that must be almost continuous cycling. When you say a 'full' complete cycle do you mean emulsion side up to emulsion up ?
Mark and Merg - Kodalk is something to consider.
Huub - I agree. The linearity and width of the 'stain' in the first negative is just very strange. I could understand if it was perpendicular to the film holder, where I may have 'brushed' the film during insertion/ removal etc.

David

[Willie]

You might try Brush Development. Pre-soak and brush the surface gently as you will when the negative goes into the developer. Emulsion side up so your brush strokes take care of any air bubbles before going further.

Use a Hake/Richeson Magic Brush and when the negetive goes into the developer you go up and down, then side to side. Then down and up, and side to side from the other end. Simple and you don't need to put pressure on the negative in the developer, just lightly across the surface.

Nice even development. Learned from my Uncle who learned from Jorge Gasteazoro who used to be on these forums. The procedure is simple and results in clean negatives without uneven development.

[C Henry]

Carwyn - I was recently introduced to your work in a communication by Mike Walker and I am really enjoying your photographs. I am struggling to work out 24 lifts in 1 minute - that must be almost continuous cycling. When you say a 'full' complete cycle do you mean emulsion side up to emulsion up ?


David

Sorry, need to clairfy. I leave my negatives emulsion side up. They are presoaked in water beofre I slip into the developer. I then start my timer. I agitate continuously for the first minute, by lifting a side of the tray (short side) off the surface, then dropping it gently which takes about two seconds, I then move my hand clockwise to the next side (long side) and do the same. I do this to all four sides within 10 seconds ( so a total of six times in the first minute). For the remainder of the development, I do this to all four sides once - 10 seconds per minute... it's my adaptation for intermittent agitation as performed with roll film.
I've tried shuffling film, but I think it's difficult for long negatives like this, 5x4 and 7x5 are far easier...

I hope that's clearer. Shout if not.

Car