Which 210mm F5.6 for portraits?

[DrTang]

Oh, almost forgot.... the Ilex-Calumet 8 1/2 inch (215mm), f/4.8 Caltar is a pretty interesting lens.

I have one of those on my Keith twin lens 4x5


maybe I'll shoot that this friday! see how it goes

[Peter De Smidt]

My Keith twin lens had 254mm Ilex Paragons. It was a great performer. My recommendation is just to start taking pictures with whatever you have. Sure, lenses have different characters, especially at wide apertures, but subject, personal interaction, styling, composition, lighting, film, processing....are going to have a bigger impact in most cases.

[hoffy]

Thanks again for the replies folks! These are great.

So, from what I can gather:

• I shouldn't discount the Caltar II that I already own. As a matter of fact, I think I might get out and use it some more
• APO Symmar would be probably too sharp and contrasty for portraits
• There are plenty of "different" lenses out there that would make awesome portrait lenses, but their availability and price is a bit questionable
• But apart from that, there is plenty out there that would work

I had a quick look at second hand on KEH (not much) and B&H. Based on what B&H have currently listed for 210mm and 240mm:

• Schneider 210mm f/5.6 Symmar-S Lens with Copal #1 Shutter
• Caltar 210mm f/5.6 Caltar II-N with Copal 1 Shutter
• Rodenstock 210mm f/5.6 Sironar-N Lens
• Schneider 210mm f/5.6 Apo-Symmar Lens with Copal #1 Shutter
• Caltar 240mm f/5.6 Caltar II-N Large Format Lens in Copal 3 Shutter

Any of the above would be suitable, except for possibly the APO Schneider?

(BTW, I am not thinking of buying from B&H at this stage, just using this as an example).

Cheers

[Peter De Smidt]

It's easy to make a lens less sharp and contrasty: Add a filter, whether glass or fabric, use a lower detail printing process, use softer light..... I wouldn't say that an APO Symmar is bad for portraits.

[Drew Wiley]

Well, I'm not a soft focus or diffuse focus type at all. But I still like a certain look for specific subjects. Although this is a 4x5 thread, double the focal length for 8x10, and I happened to prefer a 14" Dagor over a plasmat for portraits. It's damn sharp and even more contrasty, but renders a gentler look hard to put in words. Of course I exploit the enhanced micotonality by how I print of neg. But some photographers have always sought intangibles.

[Bernice Loui]

Now going off on a tangent...

Soft focus is just another expressive image making tool. Challenge of soft focus is much about lighting and using form, shapes and composition.

Monochrome:



Color:


Soft focus lenses produces images very different than adding diffusion to a non-soft focus lens. Soft focus add ons made by Tiffen, Harrison & Harrison, Zeiss, Nikon and many others have varied diffusion and often used by film and video folks. Mostly works for film and video, but never the same or equal to GOOD soft focus lenses on sheet film formats 5x7 and larger. Ideally soft focus lenses used in 8x10 sheet film then contact printed often yields remarkable results of done with the required skill, creativity, craft and mastery.


Bernice

[Peter De Smidt]

I'm only speaking to the claim that sharp, low flare optics aren't good for portraiture. I've seen some really good work with those kind of lenses, exactly the type of lenses I prefer for most of my photography.
Is this a bad portrait because it was taken with a sharp and contrasty lens?



If, for some reason, there's too much sharpness or contrast, it's not hard to lessen both of those things, whether through lighting or filters. For example, https://tiffen.com/contrast-filters/ . Or just using a non-coated filter.....

Of course this isn't the same as using an Imagon, Verito, Pinkham-Smith..... but let's get back to battling straw men....

[hoffy]

I'm only speaking to the claim that sharp, low flare optics aren't good for portraiture. I've seen some really good work with those kind of lenses, exactly the type of lenses I prefer for most of my photography.
Is this a bad portrait because it was taken with a sharp and contrasty lens?



If, for some reason, there's too much sharpness or contrast, it's not hard to lessen both of those things, whether through lighting or filters. For example, https://tiffen.com/contrast-filters/ . Or just using a non-coated filter.....

Of course this isn't the same as using an Imagon, Verito, Pinkham-Smith..... but let's get back to battling straw men....

Beautiful portrait!

[Pere Casals]

I'm only speaking to the claim that sharp, low flare optics aren't good for portraiture. I've seen some really good work with those kind of lenses, exactly the type of lenses I prefer for most of my photography...

I agree completely.

I'd add that a number of post-process techniques are also available, beyond photoshop miracles in the darkroom, for example, we can defocus a bit the enlarger in the final part of the paper exposure, then controling the defocus amount and the exposure share, or we can generate flare or halation there...

I also agree this is really great protrait.

[Bob Salomon]

Now going off on a tangent...

Soft focus is just another expressive image making tool. Challenge of soft focus is much about lighting and using form, shapes and composition.

Monochrome:



Color:


Soft focus lenses produces images very different than adding diffusion to a non-soft focus lens. Soft focus add ons made by Tiffen, Harrison & Harrison, Zeiss, Nikon and many others have varied diffusion and often used by film and video folks. Mostly works for film and video, but never the same or equal to GOOD soft focus lenses on sheet film formats 5x7 and larger. Ideally soft focus lenses used in 8x10 sheet film then contact printed often yields remarkable results of done with the required skill, creativity, craft and mastery.


Bernice

A true soft focus lens, like the Imagon is firstly variable in its effect running from very soft and diffuse to very sharp, depending on the aperture used. Secondly it has greater depth of field due to the way the effect of its soft focus works. Thirdly a soft focus lens diffuses the scenes highlights into the shadows, an add on soft focus filter be it amSoftar, Duto, have, stocking or anything else diffuses the shadows into the highlights resulting in a very different effect.
Lastly the lens like the Imagon demands a much stronger lighting ratio, about 5:1 compared to the 3:1 used normally and it doesn’t perform well from light from an umbrella. It performs best from strong direct light. Like an elliptical reflector.