Results with long expired transparency film + America's 60th national park

[Pfsor]

We have the fact that a -20ºC frozen unsealed slide film experiments degradation, can moisture at -20ºC (pure ice) be the degradation triggering factor ? IMHO oxygen is way more suspicious... It would be great to know it for sure.

You're confusing two things together. I never said the humidity was a triggering factor of the chemical changes deteriorating the film.
The humidity you want to avoid by sealing the film is simply a physical factor physically damaging the film.
In any case, Russian roulette is Russian roulette, look at it as you want.

[JMO]

Permit me to interject a comment and some suggestions. Since I have a fair amount (for me) of Fuji 4x5 E-6 film in my freezer, and even one box of Astia w/ exp in mid-1990s, I was immediately interested in QT’s OP re his experiences. However, as I read the various responses and back and forth here, I’ve detected more than a trace of criticism and sarcasm about QT’s questions and his (presumed) level of experience with handling and using color slide film. ... Let me make a suggestion that some of you on this thread purchase and review a copy of QT’s magnificent book “The Treasured Lands”; and then realize that he made most (all?) of the wonderful images in it, over about three decades, with LF color slide film that he took on the road and into the field. With that background we can be assured QT knows what he’s doing with such film, and appreciate his OP to share his life perience and request our help to improve his considerable expertise.

[Pfsor]

Very nice, your confession - except that you forget that many other members of this forum have their professional experience in the field too. I was publishing pictures for several decades and travelled in the whole world to take them. As a photographer who needed to enter the dense field of photo business I always used what was called professional film - film that was sold from the same batch of film stock. And me too, I knew what I was doing. I'm still puzzled over the OP intention - guys, use old film stock from your freezer with no fear, I did and it went well... Hmm, good for him... but hardly advice to follow in the professional field.

[QT Luong]

And what was also repeatable is the fact that the unsealed and refrozen film got bad.
It's like saying - I played the Russian roulette and I'm alive. You too can play it and stay alive!

How long did you have the unsealed film heated in your film holders and the camera and how long did it stay so after the exposure? There is no warranty you could give on the unfrozen film, like in the Russian roulette. On the contrary - you now know that the rest of the film gets deteriorated even if re-frozen. Why not the rest of the film that was used in the camera?
You got lucky - good for you. But from there going to say - it's ok, the roulette played with the old film - it is not too a logical step, it seems to me. That's how I see it.

I meant to write "What was repeatable was that unopened, frozen film...". Sorry for adding to the confusion.

Fortunately, the consequences of using expired film are not as severe as playing Russian roulette. I don't have to show the transparency to any "client" since I do not do commercial photography - although I've been photographing full-time for over a decade - and most of the shortcomings that I observed with the opened and refrozen film wouldn't be too hard to correct digitally.

[tgtaylor]

A sheet of film is composed of atoms, countless zillions of them of several different types with one type being more or less massive than the other. They exist in a constant state of vibration and are constantly bumping into their neighbor. The higher the temperature the more energetic the collisions. This constant jostling results in an exchange of kinetic energy in which some atoms, totally random and unpredictable, receive enough kinetic energy to reach the mediums escape velocity. The higher the temperature the more energetic the collision and transfer of energy. Pressure can raise or lower the mediums escape velocity. For example low atmospheric systems (“troughs”) are characteristic of winter storms and hurricanes and high atmospheric systems (“ridges”) are characteristic of warm and fair weather. Consider the marine layer and rain bearing clouds passing overhead.

Thomas

[Bernice Loui]

Have very fond memories of 5x7 Fuji Astia back when it was available circa late 1990's. 5x7 sheet can be ordered as needed. 5x7 - 13x18cm was a popular size in Japan & Germany. In American 5x7 or 13x18cm color transparency film appeared to be similar to being affected by Leprosy.

The appeal of Astia had much to do with color rendition accuracy, moderate contrast with a look that was essentially opposite of Fuji Velvia.

-Astia became one of my all time fave color transparency films. Astia also served very well as a means to check color balance of lenses and the overall imaging system once it has been gray card tested at New-Lab in SF with a test base line lens ( Kodak Commercial Ektar was the base line lens used). Astia's color accuracy and rendition can be remarkable when the entire imaging system is properly dialed-in.

Of all the color sheet films that died, Astia was the one most regretted. The accurate color rendition and modest contrast helped to tame Ciba prints. Add contrast masking when done properly, can result in Ciba prints with subtle contrast and color gradations difficult to achieve using other color transparency films.

IMO, this color print rendition is not for everyone.

Storage temperature might not be the only factor that affects color balance, exposure to high energy particles, X-rays and similar can easily have a negative effect on film. The processed Astia images made two decades ago look remarkably excellent today. Overall, my experience with Fuji color transparency films have been very good, their later offerings are color stable over time and progressed to offer excellent color rendition, a range of contrast and color gradation range when used and processed properly.

-What are the possibilities this batch of Astia being not properly processed or the possibility of another variable that has creeped into the image projected on to Astia?

As or a modern replacement for Astia, I'm extremely skeptical as Astia died off early due to lack of demand and appreciation for what it offered. The color transparency film market demanded the Velvia image presentation.



Bernice

[Pere Casals]

You're confusing two things together. I never said the humidity was a triggering factor of the chemical changes deteriorating the film.
The humidity you want to avoid by sealing the film is simply a physical factor physically damaging the film.
In any case, Russian roulette is Russian roulette, look at it as you want.

No confusion...

> Most of us do keep velvia in the -20ºC freezer.

> It is well known that sealed velvia will last for decades if frozen.

> We also know that unsealed velvia will degradate even if kept frozen.

Then a question arises: Can velvia be re-sealed to stop degradation ? Do you know how to do it ? Any idea ? With preserving gas or not ?

[Pfsor]

... The main reason I saved money was that it was bought as expired, cold-stored film (from Freestyle is I remember) for about 20% of retail.

What do you think was the reason of their lowering the price (and so drastically)?

[Pere Casals]

Frozen (and sealed) expired fuji slide film is a good opportunity if comming from a reliable vendor, it can be in better shape than non expired film that was not well stored during its shelf life.

[Sal Santamaura]

...The appeal of Astia had much to do with color rendition accuracy, moderate contrast with a look that was essentially opposite of Fuji Velvia...

That's the most succinct, perceptive appreciation of Astia I've seen. As in many aspects of life, there was no Fuji E-6 justice. Velveeta should have long ago disappeared, while Astia ought still be around. Alas, in a year or two all Fuji E-6 will be history. Those who shoot transparencies need to cross their fingers, knock on wood, etc. that Kodak brings its new Ektachrome to market.