What finish did Deardorff use in the 50s-60s?

[John Kasaian]

Well, there seems to be two issues involved. One is a sticky(sort of) black stain. The thicker areas I've been able to scrape clean with my thumbnail after softening with warm water with mild detergent. The other issue is a finish that looks mottled and tacky in spots, but transparent---sort of like dried model airplane cement but smooth, not crusty. So far the detergent hasn't worked very well----maybe I'm impatient? There is a fellow at the Ace/True Value (Fresno Ag) who is very good with finishes but I wasn't able to pick his brain today. Maybe I'll take it to ISW next week and see what they can tell me.

I'm wondering if the annual application of Butcher's Wax could be the culprit?

I really don't want to opt for a refinishing---if it looks too pretty I'd be afraid to take it out on skis (not that there is much snow right now )

[Drew Wiley]

No ego about it. Alcohol is a standard test for shellac. I have no idea what kind of shellac this gent is referring to; and I admire all kinds of serious restoration. Yeah, frankly I utterly hate violin music, opera, and ballet, and like West Coast architecture. But culture wars aside, the definition of shellac for the rest of the world for the last two or three thousand years has been exactly the same. It was invented by aphid-like bug probably millions of years ago and has never been synthetically duplicated. Alcohol is a little more complicated. A major natl drugstore chain was recently fined for selling denatured alcohol watered down over 20% more than labeled. It know of hardware and paint store chains doing the same thing. Something that is 40% water won't do much. There are specialty products like Howard's designed to rapidly cut and blend old layered shellac, but they can also attack bellows material, so I won't go there. Apparently violin refinishers aren't piano refinishers, or they'd know what twenty coats of French-polished shellac looks like. Even the most expensive auto polishes have pumice or rottenstone in em. A Deardorff is not in fact a violin, and it is safe to assume that any varnish or shellac or oil/wax finish involved can be discussed using down to earth terminology that any coatings chemist would use. I once did import special high-handed handsaws sold to coat n tail concert performers using violin bows. I could twang em pretty good - enough to make dogs howl.

[ic-racer]

Lacquer? Varnish? Urethane? Tung? Shellac? Anyone know?
The finish on the ol' 'dorff seems to be misbehaving

Could be nitrocellulose lacquer. That is what was on my Century. You can test it by seeing if nitrocellulose softens the underlying finish.

[Drew Wiley]

John, since you at least can understand fluent hillbilly, stay away from wax. You can remove that with real alcohol too - ya know, the kind with a pinch of lighter fluid in it to improve the taste, and brewed in real lead solder vats, so you die faster than black lung alone. My worry about the black is that it might in fact be an under-sealer of shellac - quite common in the era. The blotchiness might in fact be symptomatic of shellac, which is affected by heat, or due to some kind of furniture polish someone once applied (some contain silicone - voodoo!) If you wish to avoid solvents entirely, gently polish the finish with gray or white Scotch Brite (not green), or a 3M 320X sanding sponge. I have of big industrial roll of foam backed equivalent Granat in the shop right now if you want to try that, but any fine Scotch Brite pad like you'd use on a Teflon pan would do. After that, a recoat product could be selected. But a real alcohol test is essential first. Besides, nobody will hear the fiddles with all the shotguns going off.

[Drew Wiley]

Lacquer will haze in acetone, but so will varnish. No need to borrow chemicals from ameth lab in North Fork. I'd be surprised if a pricey camera like Dorff used lacquer. It usually wears thin or off in handled areas in a year or too - quite soft. Excellent tung varnishes were available in the 30's, then alkyd varnishes by the 50's. If varnish is involved and well-cleaned with Scotchbrite polishing, then I can recommend even hybrid or duak-drying water-based finishes that will stick and hold up well. But true oil based products like Profin are easier to apply in warm Fresno weather.

[Drew Wiley]

Gosh. I just looked up our local violin shop, and they've actually sold Stradavaris etc etc. Recently. No wonder most of their inventory is locked up like a jewelry store. Lots of cellos. Didn't know they had an international clientele. I'd personally rather listen to a Howlin Wolf blues recording than go to a symphony; but those guys bought certain finishes and abrasives from me, not machinery; they preferred hand detailing. Shellac is a lot of places you wouldn't expect it, like most iron-on adhesives, including older drymount tissues. The world's biggest purchaser of it is Warren Buffett because he owns both a major paint company and See's Candy. Guess what? About 75% of that goes to those chewy candy centers. You probably never knew you were eating aphid Goretex every Christmas.

[neil poulsen]

Personally, I'd leave it alone. I wouldn't want fluids leaking under the surface of the finish, where it wouldn't have an opportunity to dry.

I had a Deardorff that was in beautiful condition and looked nearly new; but, it had the crazing that you mentioned. (I called them, "aging marks", when I sold it.) I spoke with Ken Hough about the crazing on my camera. He dated my NSF camera to about 1948 and recalled that, during the war years, when Deardorff couldn't get the finish they wanted, they used an auto lacquer instead. He speculated that the crazing may have resulted from the use of that lacquer.

[John Kasaian]

Whoa!
Drew, you're on a roll here! Let me get this straight:
1. Find some pure or close to it alcohol to test.
2. Try a white or gray Scotch Brite pad to remove the finish
3, Refinish
4. Avoid Butcher's (or any)wax

Right?

Neil---This is interesting. I'll have to look up the serial numbers again but I recollect this is a mid 50's-early 60's model.
Would they still be using automotive shellac that long after the war?
I would have left it alone, only the tactile issues attracts dirt and I can't let that happen---she don't deserve that.

Thank you everyone for all the suggestions and the illuminating education on music & antiquities!

[Tin Can]

200 proof https://www.amazon.com/OUNCE-CERTIFI...70_&dpSrc=srch

[Drew Wiley]

I headed out for an 8X10 shoot, John. So will respond later.