What finish did Deardorff use in the 50s-60s?

[John Kasaian]

An interesting development---using the base as my test bed, I'd thought I'd gotten rid of the sticky stuff----it was certainly not sticky to the touch---the problem was that the base was looking pretty bad afterwards. Not an honest weatherbeating but just bad, like someone like me was using it to test a variety of different products.
So I thought I'd sand down the finish a just a bit and apply a protective coat, maybe Blue Deft would be a good match.
Then a funny thing happed as I lightly, ever so lightly applied the 600 grit sandpaper. The finish started peeling off like rubber---like when you vigorously apply a pencil erasure to a sheet of binder paper and that was sticky plus it left a blotchy surface. Very curious. The only thing I've used on her for the past 20 years is Butcher's Wax so I'm guessing that is the culprit!

I'm hopeful that the rest of the camera will respond to the Gibson guitar polish and that the Blue Deft will match up adequately with the rest of the finish. BTW while sanding down the finish on the base I discovered a few "fills." Unless Jack Deardorff was filling in cigar burn relics on those old Prohibition era Chicago back bars which Deardorff reputedly turned into mahogany cameras, this couldn't have been my 'dorffs first rodeo.

When all is once more right with my 'dorff, what wax do you suggest I use on her?

[Drew Wiley]

Deft is a brushable lacquer. You were applying lacquer thinner. Yikes! The only thing worse would be the apple cider hooch that used to be made up behind Cressmans.

[mdarnton]

Plasticizers can soak into lacquer and soften it. I don't know what's in Butcher's wax, but it's entirely possible that it is an exotic combo of things, one of which could incidentally be a plasticizer---for instance, castor oil fills the bill. All plasticizers aren't exotics. For instance if you spray nitrocellulose over wax, it won't dry. This would be something similar in reverse.

Anyway, they can soak in and soften the lacquer over time. Back when guitars were nitrocellulose, people would put their guitars in cases with those cheap hippie straps---wide cloth with plastic lining--plastic side against the guitar. If you put your guitar away like that for a year, you'd come back to a soft stripe up the back of your guitar from plasticizers leached out of the strap.

Maybe butcher's wax is the wrong thing. That's why violin shops and museums use Renaissance Wax, which by the way is NOT a paraffin. It's is used because it specifically does not bond with the old finish under it, and can be easily cleaned off.

[Drew Wiley]

Renaissance might be safer than most waxes, but it can still can trap dirt, esp if it softens a tad in John's hot climate. I've got a jar of it on hand and don't like the idea of it on a working camera.

[Drew Wiley]

Microcrystalline waxes like Renaissance are of the paraffin family - technically a blend of isoparaffin in this case - but 100% synthetic petrochemical (vs carnuba, beeswax etc).So no, not ordinary paraffin but related. Microcrystallines are made at different melting points.

[John Kasaian]

What do you guys think of purified Bees wax? That's what I've been using on the wood to wood bearing surfaces, although Ken Hough recommends candy maker's wax.
Hey, purified Bees wax is what I have on hand and being diabetic, no candy making for me!

[Drew Wiley]

Unlike Renaissance, bee's wax tends to break down and get sticky. Carnuba floor waxes like Trewax or Briwax are better. Some old world oil-wax finishes use beeswax, but that's a different topic. And please don't go to the Muffler Shop Hall of Fame there on Herndon Ave and ask their definition of "oil".

[mdarnton]

Bee's wax is sticky, not a lubricant. I can't think of any use for it in this case. I use it in my mixture for lubricating violin pegs, but the objective there is to build a mess of a sticky lubricant that lets the pegs move, not encouraging them to move.


One of the sales pitches for Renaissance Wax is that it doesn't build up--subsequent coats wash away previous ones, so that all you're doing is refreshing the surface, not adding to it. Gunky waxes build up, as you discovered. I would probably stay away from the Gibson polish. Usually those are something like a light solvent like turpentine, a bit of alcohol, some water, then mineral oil and a bit of wax. If they're really evil, they have silicone, which won't help anything (NEVER let Pledge even into your house!). Polishes are generally something to make finish look good in the short run, often by building an oil slick on the surface, then they soak through and sog up the wood. Oil evaporates, but extremely slowly.

If I were doing repairs, in this instance I'd use orange shellac, though I can see justification for other finishes. One thing I know from experience is that shellac sits well on lacquer, for years. It's hard, but flexible, a bit like leather, and I've even used it over fresh nitrocellulose and that worked great. I'm not sure about the other possibilities. Probably, though, I'd either strip and refinish, or just leave the whole mess alone. My Agfa-Ansco 8x10 is covered with the worst of damp basement-cracked lacquer, and I'm just ignoring that.

[BrianShaw]

Just a commentary: this has actually turned out to be one of the most informative threads I've ever read. Thanks to you guys who really know these products!

[Drew Wiley]

Pledge - yeah, it's the devil incarnate, just like Thompson's Water Seal outdoors. But unlike violins, power sanders work on buildings.