Michael,
Who did you use in Hong Kong?
Michael,
Who did you use in Hong Kong?
I have a copy of the book the Rangefinder Forum folks did on LuLu and it is not bad. Lulu also has a full color photo book to raise money for the tsunami victims that is quite good. As we say in the computer world - gigo - I think you have to work hard with proof books to get good quality from a printer like Lulu but at only about $10 a proof copy, that is cheaper than running prints at home.
Ed Richards
http://www.epr-art.com
QT, I would certainly stay in touch with Mike Smith as he has a track record in publishing and promoting books. Many years ago, Ralph Gibson also did a wonderful job with the Lustrum books. More importantly, with the number and caliber of images you have, I would suggest finding a reputable agent to represent you, including your book concept. I would not give up, or overlook, having a book published by a major publisher of fine art books. Best of luck.
hello QT
I work in the editorial industry in Spain for the last 5 years, editing and printing books for Harper Collins, Rizzoli, Taschen, Konemann and other publishing houses. If you see quality photo and art books in the US, many of them are either printed in Hong Kong, Singapore, Italy or Spain. Hong Kong has been printing art books at least since the early 90's so no one should be surprised about their quality. Eyes are now pointing towards mainland China and Eastern Europe for even lower prices (probably will take some years to fine tune on consistent quality).
Even supposing your quotes are hard bound w/dj on heavy “couché” paper (150gr weight at least), they are high. If they include shipping and customs, they're not that bad. I'd say you can get them for 2/3 of the price here in Spain, but then you'll have to add delivery and import tax. If you want, I can get you some quotes from the presses we work with.
It is important you understand the highest cost by far is paper, so keeping page count low and a higher print run is a good idea (of course, every one wants a coffee table book!).The paging they have given you in the quote is a bit strange. For optimum economy of plates, paging is usually in multiples of 8, 12 or 16, depending on your output size. A 100 page book normally means they'll have to make an extra plate for 4 pages only. Common optimum paging counts are 96 (too few I think), 136, 192, 216, 240.
Another very important point mentioned before by Ed Richards is the proofing. Being your own little baby, I'd be a bit frightened to send color proofs over to India or China and just sit back waiting for the book. If my100books gives you full confidence and guarantee it’s OK, but I'd personally try to be standing by the press. After that, it's all about promotion as everyone has mentioned.
Best, Antonio
Oceanic Graphic Printing (OGP).
If you, or anyone else contacts them, please mention that the reference came from me. Thank you.
Unless you know what you are doing and how to evaluate a press proof and know what it needs to make it better you should hire someone to communicate with the printer, or better yet, stand on press. A book is an expensive undertaking. No printer, even the very best (and we use the very best--in Belgium--for our books) will get it right without tweaking on press (although our printer in Belgium comes very, very close).
Last month Paula was on press for the prinitng of our Lodima Press books by Brett Weston, Nick Nixon, Carl Chiarenza, and George Tice. George Tice went over to be on press, too, and he commented that he had never seen anyone inspect a press sheet as carefully as Paula did. (George Tice has been on press in seven or eight countries for over a dozen books.) He called our printer, "A genius," and wants to print his next book with him. He thought that, by far, our book of his work was the finest he had ever seen of all of his books and said that from now on it will be very hard to look at a duotone again. Many of the differences are subtle, however, and if one were to look only at a lesser quality book without comparing one might think it okay.
In that context, the contract with OGP was for up to three press proofs. The first press proof from Oceanic was not bad at all--most everyone would have approved it. I ended up having them do five press proofs--each one of the entire book. They told me I had pushed them farther than anyone ever had before. The book, "Crash, Burn, Love: Demolition Derby" by Bill Lowenburg, although not of the quality of our Lodima Press books, is something I am right proud of. The book has excellent printing. And because it was printed in Hong Kong, not Belgium, it sells for only $29.95 when purchased directly.
Well, I actually feel like I can contribute something useful for a change. (I've written five commercially published books.)
1) Prices vs. copies. I once interviewed an expert in self publishing who said that print on demand doesn't work if you're actually looking to be a publisher, because the costs are too high. Mind you, she was talking about maybe $5 a copy versus a $20 cover price. The problem is that you need to make a certain amount to actually pay for doing business (forget a profit) given the way mass book distribution works.
2) It seems to me that within the last year or two PDN ran an article on people who had self-published photo books. If memory serves, you may have to wait for a long time to pay off even the cost of production.
3) Steve Simmons wrote that marketing is 50% of success. I'd disagree - it's 90% or more. If you don't know how to market, then you aren't even going to get into the places the book might sell given worthwhile content.
4) There is a lot more to producing a good book than the printing costs. You will need to hire someone who knows production and design to get something to the printer that will come out well. You will probably want at least some written content, which means maybe an author and definitely an editor. I'm a professional writer with wide credits, and *I* need that second eye.
5) Michael Smith mentioned getting a lower quote from Hong Kong. That would make sense because you weren't dealing with a middle man looking to make a profit, which gets added on top. Other questions to ask: does the printing include a dust jacket? Production and layout? Shipping from Hong Kong? Heavy weight paper and coating? If you want to go this route, make sure you know the total landed cost of having the books show up at your door.
6) If you are going to self publish, I'd strongly suggest reading some books on the subject to find out what you are getting yourself into. Some names that come to mind are Dan Poynter as well as Tom and Marilyn Ross.
The idea of looking for an agent is a good one. I'd throw in checking if there might be a backer for the project - maybe the national park service or a grant. If you can get money to cover or at least subsidize the actual production costs, selling becomes much easier.
" If you can get money to cover or at least subsidize the actual production costs, selling becomes much easier."
Actually selling doesn't become any easier. It is just that the pressure is off.
There are many things to ask when you get a quote.
For anyone interested, Paula and I consult with people doing self-published books. We're not inexpensive, but we have saved people a great deal of money and have met a number of self-publishers who said, "If only I had talked to you first." Additionally, I am at present working on a series of articles about how to make a photography book. They will cover everything from conception and sequencing (the most important things when making a book), through distribution--with everything in between.
QT, I had not seen your website - impressive is the least. Your photos are fantastic, your project shows passion and dedication and I must second lensworthy's suggestion to try and get published by a major editorial who will get their slice but distribute and print accordingly.
My desire is to print the "book" myself and I've seen a couple of postings in the past about this. I'd rather produce an extreme short run out of my printer using an appropriate archival paper and have the book hand-bound.
I'm not all interested in a medium to large run book from China, although I've seen a couple and thought they were "acceptable". Is there anyone still looking into paper possibilites for not only self publishing, but self printing?
"I meant what I said, not what you heard"--Jflavell
I saw a guy who produced very limited artists books simply by getting the images printed by frontier on fuji chrystal, having laid up each page in a DTP app, and then got them hand bound with a hard cover. All shot 5x4. Looked great. I wouldn't worry too much about archivability as mass produced books aren't archival, but I'd be more concerned about ink rubbing off if you planned on inkjet output
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