Keeping scrotes & lowlifes at bay.

[Paul_5410]

Hello JJ,

Here in Florida it is very easy to obtain a concealed weapons permit. I have several pro photographers associates who have obtain theirs based on the fact that they are usually moving about with a few thousand dollars worth of equipment (as we know that isn't very hard to do) and the state recognizes the risk they faced.

I am not sure if this is good or bad???, I sort of think a "security in numbers" might be a better methodology. If possible get a few folks to tag along with you? Maybe a photo club outing or similar. It is sad but civility seems to be fading?

Three shining bare spikes on the end of a tripod are worth remembering too. But in closing as attached to our equipment as we tend to be. It can all be replaced and a life can not.

Take Care of yourself, I'm happy to hear you are okay and I'm going to go look at the bear spray that sounds pretty good! But my 9mm has 15 answers to the problem. . . then I'll need a good lawyer!

Paul

[Neal Shields]

In Texas, a baseball bat is a baseball bat unless you say that you are keeping it protect yourself and then it is an illegal weapon and a felony!

So if someone asks you why you carry that spray, it is to unstick cameras.

This whole post is now public record forever and if you ever get sued, I assure you that the lawyers will find it.

Somewhere, I can't find the quote again, Thoreau said: "everything you get, you trade for something called life". So it isn't just a camera, it is a whole bunch of hours of my life.

However, while in many jurisdictions in the US it is legal to defend your property; from a practical economics standpoint it is probably stupid.

The laws have a lot of “gotchas” in them so before you defend yourself or your cameras you better have at least a working knowledge. Was, for example, he taking the tripod or just picking it up to look at?

While there is a long record on the effectiveness of chemical self-defense sprays there is also a long record on their failures. Watch the Rodney King video sometime and see if you want to trust your life to them. You spray the wrong person to keep them from taking your camera and they may stick a knife in you.

I think that as large format photographers we get in more situations where we are away from crowds and venerable because it takes so long to set up a shot that trouble has time to get organized. Further, we usually can’t just hop back in the car and drive away.

In my own case, I case a scene pretty carefully for human predators (that would be in jail in a rational society) before I ever get out of the car. ( I like to photograph old abandoned buildings and factories so this is a problem that I face almost every time that I load up my cameras.)

If there is any doubt, I will set up the camera and lenses at a remote location so I can get the picture quickly and scoot. Then I will repack everything at the original location.

I think that a good rule would be not to go anywhere with pepper spray that you wouldn’t go without it.

P.S. There is a witnessed (neighbor accross the street) documented case where a woman shot a man that was attacking here with a 12 inch butcher knife 12 times with a 9mm and he kept comming. The 13th shot went into his brain and stopped him.

[Paul_5410]

Talon

Ball

Hollow points

Hydrashock Impact

If you do not recognise these terms do not carry a handgun until you take a proper weapons training class. The type of bullet is as important as the size.

I am not advocating the use of a weapon but respectfully showing that knowledge is nescessary as the post script from Neal's note illustrates. A ball passes through a body. . . I'll allow you to research the other type of rounds. As the news sadly tells us everyday even a child can pull a trigger. Training is required to master anything.

My only intent for this post is to show that anyone who desires to purchase a personal sidearm needs to also obtain proper training.

[Jay DeFehr]

JJ,

are you sure you didn't overreact? I don't read anything in your description that constitutes an attack on the part of the injured party, which was not you, by the way. According to your description, they could have simply been curious about your equipment, and perhaps a little rude in reaching for your camera without asking permission to do so. Does that warrant chemical warfare? I think you're lucky indeed that the person you attacked, or his companion, didn't retaliate, which would have been very defensible, both legally and morally. If someone sprayed me in my eyes with some unknown chemical, I would consider it a threat to my life, and respond accordingly. Maybe you should look into a course on conflict resolution before you venture into the public domain armed with chemical weapons.

Jay

[james mickelson]

Having grown up on the mean streets, anyone within arms reach of you constitutes warranted use of some kind. If they are that close and you've asked them to leave, you have the right to protection under the law. But I would venture to suggest that if you can't take care of yourself with the weapons you were born with, you had better take the class and get yourself some good ol pepper spray. You will learn when and wether it is appropriate to use the stuff. But arms length is legally admissible in a court of law. A lot of the laws governing self defense have been changed to protect the unarmed. Tell them to back off and then nail em. That's your right. Worry about the consequences once the police arrive. That's your property and it's your life. Don't allow someone to get that close. What was going on from your description was called intimidation. It's an old game. You gotta have balls to beat them at their own game. The least that would have happened is that you would have lost your equipment. Taking no action invites more aggresive posturing. By the time the law arrives to help you, you've lost equipment or your money and not to mention your vehicle. Tell them you're working and to go away. If you can then leave. But if they don't take the hint. use the spray. First one in the chest, then empty the can at them if they don't get the hint. If there are two of them, when the cops arrive, self defense is your best defense. You feared for your life and property, and you acted in accordance with your training. If more people did this, fewer transients would attempt this aggresive behavior.

[Jeff Moore]

Over react, Jay? If you re-read the post, they followed her to a SECOND location and grabbed the camera. That is reasonably considered a threat, and I know plenty of lawyers that would take that case in a minute.

Course in conflict resolution? That's funny.

You voted for Clinton twice, didn't you?

[Wayne Crider]

Cell phone and speed dial the instant you notice something. Talk loud.

[Jon Wilson]

As everyone knows, you must always be on the alert. A CCW in my opinion is a must with no less than a 9mm in tow. A perp can move in a split second and cross the 10-15' distance between their threat and your person...you must be able to react quickly and that does not mean to respond by introducing yourself to them. Don't carry unless you are willing to act and live with the consequences of your actions. As my best friend has always advised, based on his two tours w/ SEAL team one and 22000+ undercover drug convictions to his credit...."I would always prefer to be judged by 12 , than carried by 6." Good Light, but always keep safe.

[Jay DeFehr]

Jeffrey,

I read the post carefully, and see no evidence of anything more sinister than curiosity. There were no threats made beyond the discourtesy of reaching for someone's property (JJ never stated that they grabbed anything) without permission. If JJ is indeed a woman, she should be cautious, but not paranoid. Your legal background is clearly limited if you believe the situation as described, is legally defensible. As for my voting record, it seems you might be under the misconception that I am a lefty peacenick who would never advocate violoence under any circumstance. I have no problem with violence when it's warranted, or consensual. Do you want to fight?

Jay

[Jim Rice]

I voted for Clinton twice and still want a 1911 Colt .45, so stereotypes are often inaccurate. OTOH I can afford carb cleaner, and I'm pretty sure they aren't going to be taking down my tag number while blinded. The only thing I would have done differently than JJ would be popping them both at the onset of violence.