Heliopan circular or Lee filter system

[Sweep]

Ok, card's on the table, even though I have yet to shoot a single sheet of 10x8, I am starting to research filters for a future purchase.
Unless Fuji re-introduce Velvia 50 to the European & US markets, and lets hope all the new Intrepid 10x8 backers give Fuji a kick to do so, I am only ever likely to shoot Ilford black and white. Having only ever shot FP4+ and HP5 with my Fuji GF670 I do know that I want red, yellow, orange and, possibly, green filters for the 10x8. Being only 40.5mm thread size these were relatively inexpensive even though I bought Heliopan.
I currently own a Schneider 240mm Apo-Symmar which has a 77mm filter thread and whilst I have no immediate plans, or funds, to buy another lens if I did at some point in the future it would likely be a Symmar 360mm which has a 112mm filter thread.
I have never owned a Lee-type slot filter system but, I presume, they must have some advantages over the circular type such as gradients etc.
As either system will be a significant investment which system should I go for and why?
Do I need grad filters (noob question, I know) when just shooting B&W?
Will I be able to use the Lee 100 system with a Symmar 360mm?
If I never get a second lens the Heliopan system will be cheaper but if I do plan to buy a 360mm then it would make sense to start building a Lee set-up now.

Your guidance is appreciated

...Sweep

[pjd]

Why are you so keen on the 360 Symmar? There are smaller, lighter, cheaper, sharper / softer lenses out there! 112mm is not a filter size I'd plan to get into without a compelling reason - and I happen to have a 360 Symmar (bought it cheaply for the compound shutter).

I don't think grad ND filters will be anywhere near as useful with monochrome as they are with velvia in small formats. You could try a cheap (Chinese eBay) version of the Lee filter system and see how you get on with it. Or get a cheap holder / set of adapters and good quality filter to try.

[angusparker]

Its a hard choice. The Lee system (or a copy) is more flexible in that it works with all sizes of lenses (up to 95mm?) as long as you have an adapter ring for the filter thread size. Also the Lee system has a great hood that really improves images. The grads are less useful than in color work that is for sure which negates that difference. Also, the Lee filters are a bit harder to keep clean and are more easily scratched than a glass filter.

I also have individual filters for my most common filter sizes (52/67/77) - and some step-up rings for odd sizes. What I have found is that the set-up rings can be a real pain, but the Lee adapter rings are really easy to screw on and off because you have more to grab onto. I highly recommend standardizing on one filter ring size for your lenses if you can which ever way you go. It's pretty easy to do 52mm or 67mm in 4x5 or 67mm or 77mm in 8x10. IMHO I'd stay away from any lens with a filter ring size larger than 77mm for 8x10.

When I'm traveling light I usually just grab the glass filters, but when I have the luxury of more equipment I take the Lee, especially when there is likely to be glare issues.

[Doremus Scudder]

If you have a lot of lenses with large (and different) filter sizes, then some kind of filter system like the Lee would make sense (if they go up to 112mm, that is...).

In your place, I would likely look for lenses with smaller filter sizes and then buy one set of good-quality, coated glass screw-in filters in the largest size and step-up rings for the lenses with smaller filter sizes. I shoot 4x5, not 8x10, so can get by with relatively smaller filters overall. All my lenses take, or have step-up rings t take, 67mm filters.

Best,

Doremus

[Sweep]

Why are you so keen on the 360 Symmar?

Well maybe I am not, but the 360 Symmar is a relatively common lens, demonstrates my dilemma as far as phrasing the question to the forum, and is possibly the worst case, i.e. 'oversized', filter thread on a 360mm.

[Sweep]

Its a hard choice. The Lee system is more flexible in that it works with all sizes of lenses (up to 95mm?) as long as you have an adapter ring for the filter thread size. Also the Lee system has a great hood that really improves images. The grads are less useful than in color work that is for sure which negates that difference. Also, the Lee filters are a bit harder to keep clean and are more easily scratched than a glass filter.

Yes, the adaptor ring is one of the main reasons for considering the Lee; the ability to buy just one £40 adaptor ring instead of four new Heliopan filters. The hood is something that I hadn't thought about but, after reading your reply, I have had a look at some YouTube vids on it.
Are graduated coloured filters, like red and orange, any good as that would seem an ideal solution for B&W where I could just emphasis the sky without negatively effecting the rest of the image?

[Sweep]

If you have a lot of lenses with large (and different) filter sizes, then some kind of filter system like the Lee would make sense (if they go up to 112mm, that is...).

In your place, I would likely look for lenses with smaller filter sizes and then buy one set of good-quality, coated glass screw-in filters in the largest size and step-up rings for the lenses with smaller filter sizes. I shoot 4x5, not 8x10, so can get by with relatively smaller filters overall. All my lenses take, or have step-up rings t take, 67mm filters.

Only have one lens at the moment but I will be able to afford to start building a filter system before I buy a second lens. I may actually never buy a second lens but want to fully research filters, and the possibilities to use with different lens threads, before I commit to one solution.

Thanks for your replies PJD, Angus and Doremus

...Sweep

[Corran]

Lee's "standard" foundation kit show that they have a 112mm adapter ring. However, you should realize it will vignette into the IC. It's basically a step-down ring, as the Lee system is really only designed to sit flush on the lens with up to 82mm lens rings, or using the "slip-on" Lee system, you can slip it over a 100mm-wide lens. But that being said, the 360mm Symmar has plenty of IC so it may not be an issue.

Also, I use GND filters even on b&w. It prevents blown highlights and makes the negatives easier to scan and print.

In my opinion though, I wouldn't drag the 360mm Symmar far into the field, unless you had a good reason for it. Plus that huge lens element and being single-coated (mine is, anyway) would be asking for trouble. I'd be looking for a 355mm G-Claron or some other process lens and stick with your 77mm filter size.

Here's the Lee kit and a large ring on top of my 360mm Symmar to show how much smaller it is:



Lee I think does make an "oversized" filter system. Big $$$ though probably.

[xkaes]

I too would shy away from a filter thread that wide (112mm), but you MIGHT be able to get by with a narrower filter. I'm a 4x5 user, but have had to deal with the same issue. I don't even remember if I have two lenses with the same filter thread! I've standardized on 77mm -- which even works for my wide lenses (as long as I don't put TOO many filters on).

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the Cokin system. It seems similar to Lee and has four, space-sized systems. The L series is 100mm across, the XL is 130mm. Both are pretty pricey, and you might be able to get by with the L series on the 360mm. Their website is horrible, in my opinion, but their filters are nice.

P.S. Depending on your types of pictures, graduated filters (B&W and Color) can be very useful in B&W photography.

[Corran]

My experience with Cokin filters was that they flared horribly. They may have higher-end filters that don't but I never bothered. I have had good experiences with Haida filters which are a bit less expensive than Lee.