Hello and Help/Suggestions for first 4x5 setup

[Dan Fromm]

Leigh, I was thinking of the 105/8 Fujinons. Go here: http://www.subclub.org/fujinon/index.htm for reasonably clear explanations of which LF Fujinon is what.

There are also a couple 105/5.6 Fujinons that I prefer to think of as normal lenses for 2x3 rather than as w/a lenses for 4x5. You're right, they'll cover 4x5 but ...

FWIW, I recently got a 105/5.6 NW (engraved W, 6/6 if I counted reflections correctly) for use on 6x12. IMO it and the 105 CM W make better sense for 6x12 than for 4x5. Same goes for the 100/5.6 Nikkor-W (153 mm @f/22), the 105/5.6 Nikkor-W that you mentioned, and the Sironars and Symmars that don't quite cover 150 mm. Also for the 105/4.5 Super Topcor (158 mm).

Given the OP's budget I don't see why he should have to compromise by getting a relatively low-coverage 105 if he must get a 105. What's good enough for you should be good enough for him.

[Leigh]

Leigh, I was thinking of the 105/8 Fujinons.

Hi Dan,

I believe those are the ones I mentioned in the previous post.

That site is one of the resources I used when I compiled my database.
Unfortunately, Fuji apparently didn't feel documentation was very important.

- Leigh

[angusparker]

Some suggestions for lens sets for 4x5 cameras: http://www.angusparkerphoto.com/blog...x5-view-camera

I'm partial to Chamonix but the Shen Hao and Tachihara field cameras are basically the same thing. You can't go wrong with any of their 4x5 offerings.

[Mick Fagan]

I have a Shen Hao HZX45-IIA as my go anywhere do anything 4x5” camera. About 5-6 years ago, I picked up a bag bellows for this camera, but to be honest I didn’t seem to need it that much. My work is landscape, architectural and portraiture, with the odd automobile thrown in for good measure.

The standard bellows are very good, enabling one to compress enough to allow a 65mm lens to be used. Essentially though, any shift requirements at that compression, really doesn’t work. That said, my Fujinon 65mm lens only has just enough coverage for minimal movement, so movements at that compression, just really don’t happen. I do though, use the bag bellows whenever I am using the 65mm lens, I see no point in really compressing the bellows to the minimum, and, if you pardon the pun, stretching their capability by using maximum compression!

Recently I acquired a 90mm lens with huge coverage; actually able to easily cover 5x7”. This was something I had really wished for, so I could utilise more, the movements this camera is capable of doing. Prior to this, I was using a tiny Schneider Angulon 90mm, perfect for backpacking and the majority of stuff I do, but for movements, it really wasn’t the best.

With the arrival of my wide coverage 90m lens, I started to do a couple of architectural shots I had on hold. My tests in the backyard emulating shift, rise and/or fall, indicated to me that bag bellows would certainly make life easier with this lens attached. If I need to use a lot of shift/rise/fall with this lens, then the bag bellows is required, otherwise the standard bellows were going to be stretched. After using this lens in the street, literally, I now use bag bellows whenever I use this lens, unless it is a straight frontal type of shot with either no movement, or minimal movement

Attached is a picture of the standard bellows, alongside the bag bellows for my Shen Hao. The plastic zip lock type bag, is what the bellows came in, I see no need to change this and the whole lot sits in my backpack underneath my dark cloth. Very neat and tidy arrangement, takes about 1 minute to change the bellows.

Also attached are some shots of the wide coverage 90mm lens using approximately 23mm rear shift. I did actually take a picture as set-up, this was a test picture to ascertain whether or not running this much shift would work out quality wise on the negative; it did.

As you mention versatility of movement, but you at this stage don’t know how much movement you may in the future require, having a camera that has the option of a bag bellows at a reasonable cost, may be something you may wish to consider.

Mick.

[Ruleof72]

A great deal in used modern lenses, would be the Caltar--IIN series (rebranded Rodenstock lenses). Their 150/5.6 was my only 4x5 lens for years -- very small and light. Should be well under $300.

Tachihara 4x5 Field is a beautiful camera. Not bomb-proof, but well-made. The Horseman WoodField is another nice wood field camera...more 'bomb-proof' than the Tachihara, but not as pretty.

Thanks for the tip on the Caltar lens, I'll definitely check it out.

I used to own a Tachihara 4x5. It is extremely light weight, has a very bright screen to focus on, and can use a 90mm lens on a flat lens board. On the negative side, it's not as sturdy as the Chamonix or Shen Hao and it's so pretty that you need to be prepared for people approaching you asking about your pretty antique camera.

I would look for a used camera. For example, I've seen used Shen Hao's for $700 on Ebay and used Chamonix's for $800. You do have to be patient and wait for something to turn up for sale. After you shoot a camera for a while you may decide that you want a different one. You can usually sell a used camera for close to what you paid for it.

Spend your money on film!

Yes, the Tachihara is a very "bright" looking camera with lots of shiny parts. I'm into more of an "inconspicuous" look and to be honest the Tachihara is a bit too shiny for my taste. I know it's a good camera but I'd probably be happier in the long run with a more restrained look, which the Shen Hao and Chamonix have.

Some suggestions for lens sets for 4x5 cameras: http://www.angusparkerphoto.com/blog...x5-view-camera

I'm partial to Chamonix but the Shen Hao and Tachihara field cameras are basically the same thing. You can't go wrong with any of their 4x5 offerings.

Thanks for the link! There's a lot of good information there and it will definitely help in my research.

I have a Shen Hao HZX45-IIA as my go anywhere do anything 4x5” camera. About 5-6 years ago, I picked up a bag bellows for this camera, but to be honest I didn’t seem to need it that much. My work is landscape, architectural and portraiture, with the odd automobile thrown in for good measure.

The standard bellows are very good, enabling one to compress enough to allow a 65mm lens to be used. Essentially though, any shift requirements at that compression, really doesn’t work. That said, my Fujinon 65mm lens only has just enough coverage for minimal movement, so movements at that compression, just really don’t happen. I do though, use the bag bellows whenever I am using the 65mm lens, I see no point in really compressing the bellows to the minimum, and, if you pardon the pun, stretching their capability by using maximum compression!

Recently I acquired a 90mm lens with huge coverage; actually able to easily cover 5x7”. This was something I had really wished for, so I could utilise more, the movements this camera is capable of doing. Prior to this, I was using a tiny Schneider Angulon 90mm, perfect for backpacking and the majority of stuff I do, but for movements, it really wasn’t the best.

With the arrival of my wide coverage 90m lens, I started to do a couple of architectural shots I had on hold. My tests in the backyard emulating shift, rise and/or fall, indicated to me that bag bellows would certainly make life easier with this lens attached. If I need to use a lot of shift/rise/fall with this lens, then the bag bellows is required, otherwise the standard bellows were going to be stretched. After using this lens in the street, literally, I now use bag bellows whenever I use this lens, unless it is a straight frontal type of shot with either no movement, or minimal movement

Attached is a picture of the standard bellows, alongside the bag bellows for my Shen Hao. The plastic zip lock type bag, is what the bellows came in, I see no need to change this and the whole lot sits in my backpack underneath my dark cloth. Very neat and tidy arrangement, takes about 1 minute to change the bellows.

Also attached are some shots of the wide coverage 90mm lens using approximately 23mm rear shift. I did actually take a picture as set-up, this was a test picture to ascertain whether or not running this much shift would work out quality wise on the negative; it did.

As you mention versatility of movement, but you at this stage don’t know how much movement you may in the future require, having a camera that has the option of a bag bellows at a reasonable cost, may be something you may wish to consider.

Mick.

That's good information on the bag bellows. Does that fit the other Shen Hao cameras as well? I'm definitely trying to err on the side of having more movement than less since, as you say, I don't know how much or little I might need. Trying to balance that with weight/portability is a challenge. Do you find the slightly heavier weight of the HZX (at 2.4kg) to be a big factor when hiking compared to a lighter camera? I like the specs of the camera but the extra weight is holding me back a bit.....but maybe it shouldn't?

[Mick Fagan]

It isn't as light as cameras that have arrived on the scene after this model of Shen Hao was released, so it is what it is. That said, it is very sturdy, all things considered. Every view camera I have used and/or owned, moves (or appears to move a fraction) as you place the film holder in and out, or at least that is my observation.

Weight is relative, possibly less relative the younger and/or fitter, you are. The size and number of lenses you wish to carry, also reflects your weight carrying capability. I looked at the link Angus Parker gave, on the whole I think his suggestions are pretty much on the money. What I particularly found interesting, is that I have a lens selection virtually identical to one of the ones he suggests. Which I have arrived at after using and owning this particular camera, for around 9-10 years.

I started on a quest to see if I would like to get into 4x5" cameras for fun, as opposed to working with them in a studio environment, many moons ago. Like you I narrowed camera choice down to one or two units. My particular Shen Hoa camera turned up secondhand, virtually in my backyard; something I didn't expect. Australia is reasonably hard to find LF cameras and equipment, so I picked up this camera with a bevy of lenses from 90mm through to a 400 telephoto. All worked fine, but I have slowly picked up a lens here and there that is more suited to my style of photography with this camera.

I ended up with a suite of Fujinon lenses for a couple of reasons, firstly there is quite a range of Fujinon lenses currently coming from Japan at good prices; this I think will not last forever, so I started looking in earnest about 2 years ago. Secondly, Fujinon lenses are (almost) all cheaper than any other of the four big manufacturers. Of my original suite of lenses, I have only kept one, which is the Fujinon f/6.3 150. This lens stays permanently attached to the camera when folded. It is placed backwards, then I fold the camera down. My range of lenses now allows me to photograph virtually anything I wish with this particular camera, and probably any other 4x5" folding camera I may at some later stage acquire. The lenses I now carry are, 65mm, 90mm, 150mm and 250mm. With the exception of the 65mm lens, all of these lenses have wide coverage, meaning I have ample movements available if I need or wish to use them.

Something you may not be aware of, is the ability to interchange your mounted lenses to a different sized lens board camera. Attached is my Toyo 4x5" monorail with the same 65mm lens on the adapter that allows it to be immediately transposed from camera to camera. Having one of these adapter boards for the Toyo, has been great.

Mick.

[Doremus Scudder]

Rule,

I'll chime in here with my (admittedly biased) opinion: I'm going to focus on small and light. I do lots of hiking/biking and wilderness work with my 4x5 in addition to the city and architectural things I do, so I need a full-featured, but lightweight kit. Let me add here that I currently own seven 4x5 cameras, both monorails and field cameras, but end up using only one or two of them really regularly.

Like Ian, I've used a Wista DX (not the DXII with no shift!) for almost 30 years. It is my hiking camera. A small lens folds up nicely inside the camera, saving on space and the (cherrywood) camera itself weighs in at 1.8 kg (just a shade under 4 lbs). I also have a Woodman 45 and a Wista SW (basically a DX with interchangeable bellows) that are lightweight and that I use often. If I were looking at new cameras, I'd definitely be looking at the Chamonix cameras and the Shen Hao PTB. The Shen Hao HZX is starting to get a bit large for me, but is a really nice camera.

For me, keeping the camera weight at around 4 lbs and the dimensions small are paramount. I've owned larger wood folders and currently own one of the last-generation Zone VI cameras, but at around 6 lbs and with the extra size, these cameras are just too unwieldy for most of my work.

As for movements: I use movements a lot and would love a full range of movements on each standard. However, back movements mean weight. I can get by well with full front movements (rise, fall, swing and tilt) and only swings and tilts on the back, as long as at least one of the standards has a shift movement (I can't live without shift; I use it a lot, especially in the city). My Wista DX (and Wista SW) have shift on the rear standard, my Woodman has shift on the front; it really makes no difference where the shift is unless you're doing a lot of close-up work. Occasionally (especially when working on architecturals), I'll run out of front rise or shift. I've learned to quickly use the "point-and-tilt/swing-parallel) technique for the few times when that happens to get the needed amount of rise or shift. Sure, it's a work-around and takes a bit more time, but it is way worth it for me to have the smaller camera. As for asymmetrical movements: I find them overrated. I can swing and focus just as quickly without them. If I had them, I'd use them, but if they added any weight at all... forget it!

Bellows draw: The type of lightweight wooden folders that I use all have about 300mm/12 in. of bellows draw (more bellows = more weight). However, I can easily use my 300mm Nikkor M on them by mounting it on a top-hat lensboard. I have a 450mm lens that I use with other cameras, but, to be perfectly honest, it gets used only rarely. If you think you will want the option for using lenses longer than 300mm, then definitely look at the Chamonix and the Shen Hao PTB; their design is a bit fiddly (especially with front tilt and rise on the same control), but they offer a lot more bellows draw than more conventional designs in that weight/size category.

Lenses: You have a pretty good idea of where to start, so let me make a couple of suggestions within your parameters. First, if you're looking at a "range" of focal lengths for one choice, get the shortest; you can always crop 90mm to the 105mm view, or the 135mm to the 150mm view, etc., but not the other way around. As you've likely surmised, the 100mm-105mm lenses (with the exception of the monster super-wide designs) don't cover 4x5 well. Go for a 90mm; it's a standard focal length for a good reason. My lightweight 90mm of choice would be the Nikkor SW 90mm f/8. They (as well as most manufacturers) make a faster/larger 90mm with a bigger image circle, but, again, it's too bulky and heavy for me. I use a Schneider SA 90mm f/8 on a recessed board currently and just can't seem to give it up for the Nikkor with the slightly larger image circle since it's so incredibly sharp. I own a 100mm Wide Field Ektar that I'll take when I really need to pare down on weight, but it won't cover as much as the 90mm, which gets chosen anytime I think I'll need front rise for buildings, etc. I'd stick with a 90mm for my first wide lens if I were you.

I'd also recommend that you start with a three-lens kit (really, it won't cost you too much more than two lenses and will give you a ton more flexibility). I'd suggest you pick up a 135mm f/5.6 Plasmat design (Nikkor W, Fujinon W, Rodenstock Sironar (N or S or Apo), Schneider Symmar (Apo-). Note that later models of these lenses will be more expensive, but earlier ones are fine performers. This slightly-wider "normal" focal length is my most used. A slight crop gives you 150mm and the bit of extra angle of view seems to make this focal length much more versatile; it is my most-used focal length. Then, you can pick up a cheaper lens in the 180mm-240mm range. There are lots of 210mm Plasmats out there for not much, however they are too big for me. I've got several lenses in this range that are smaller and lighter. First is the Fujinon A 180mm f/9. These can be a bit more expensive on the used market but are really tiny and nice. I also have and frequently use an Ektar 203mm f/7.7. These come up regularly on the market, but you need to make sure that you get one in good shape. If you do, you'll have a small, sharp and reliable lens that covers 5x7. The 210mm Tessar lenses are heavier than the ones just listed, but readily available. I have a Fujinon L 210mm f/5.6 that is a fine performer. Schneider G-Claron lenses in this focal length are compact and great performers as well. If you want to go longer and stay small, look for a Fujinon A 240mm f/9 or a G-Claron in a shutter in that same focal length. Even longer and still compact are the Nikkor M 300mm and the Fujinon C 300mm, which you can use on a camera with 12" bellows mounted in a top-hat lensboard.

Hope this helps a bit.

Doremus

[Jeff Keller]

For architecture you will probably want a wide angle lens with ample movements. If you aren't doing close ups, you many find that you don't need much movement when using a long lens. Think carefully about your choice of camera & wide angle lens.

Although every camera you mentioned is a "box" style field camera you should also consider a Canham DLC45 (about $1200 used). They have excellent wide angle movements and a fairly long bellows. They fold up and fit into a small padded bag. (My favorite all around camera)

Considering price, you should also consider a Sinar Norma (about $450 used). They are beautiful metal monorails which use the same accessories as the Sinar F and Sinar P. You would only be limited by what you were willing to carry. You can collapse the camera onto a short rail section allowing it to be packed as a small bundle.

I would also recommend you consider a 72mm Super Angulon XL for your wide angle lens choice. Although fairly large and expensive ($800 used) they take sharp pictures and have ample movement range.

If you think you will get more than a couple lenses, you will probably find using technika style lens boards with an adapter to fit you camera will save space and let you change cameras easily if you decide to.

jeff

[Darren H]

While anything on your list will work as will the suggestions, my advice is keep it simple. Large format is very different from shooting 35mm film. Many way ways to make mistakes and almost all of them cost $$. Start simple. Learn to think and work slow. Landscape is good at this.

Any mentioned camera will work. Check out Intrepid camera. New company from UK with a new camera in the $300 range for a 4x5. Weighs just two pounds. Looks like it has all the basics you would need. Add in a single lens. Probably in the 135-210 range and go. Think small and simple.

Anything you don't like you can sell. Probably get back what you paid for it.

FWIW I use all of three lenses for landscape. 75mm, 125mm, 210mm. I could make it with just two.

Good luck.

[Professional]

Wish if you were living in my country then i will sell 2 large format cameras for you with some accessories, but i hope you can find/get what you want and enjoy it.