LFPF censorship and moderation

[RHITMrB]

Every forum I frequent bans political talk, and applies that ban with far less consideration and openness to comment than do we.

Rick "not that what other forums do applies here" Denney

I don't post on those forums either.

[diversey]

I was shocked when I saw Richard's "Hearts On Our Sleeves: Portraits and Stories of Transgender+" thread was closed. It was unfair to close his tread just because one person disagreed with him and Richard tried to show his large format photos and make an artist statement as a photographer in this forum. Please follow the common sense. If this forum does not support his photos, who will support them?

[Jac@stafford.net]

Who needs a forum where rules are applied arbitrarily?

Arbitrary is a judgement we tend to find when nothing else seems to fit our view, so I, personally, do not go there unless there is conspicuous prejudice. In some responses by members I find some rather astounding sub-text of grave agendas. I also find the original post with pictures enlightening! Balance.

So here we are with a locked thread, however Richard Man's personal/alternate web publication has been posted in the thread. That does not occur in strident censorship.

Thank you, Richard, and good will to the moderators who must deal with this. In the end. Richard's work is out there, outside of this forum; in the free expression zone.

[richardman]

By the silence of all the other moderators refusing to address the last sentence of this post, we know where they stand:



Ralph could have used another example, such as "poor children in NYC" but he specifically chose 3 groups that any reasonable people would agree should not be promoted.

This is the problem.

[8thsamurai]

Every forum I frequent bans political talk, and applies that ban with far less consideration and openness to comment than do we.

Rick "not that what other forums do applies here" Denney

It's wonderful that you are so open "Mistakes were made, but not by the mods" that really makes us feel welcome as a community.

[Kirk Gittings]

It's telling which stories are and are not allowed to be told.

Last week I had a thread closed talking about the increasing dust in the American West. I plucked it out of a thread I started on dealing with dust when drying film. I knew it would lead to talk about global warming and I knew it would be quickly shut down. And it was. Asi es la vida aqui. I don't know of a more important discussion about the future and frankly about the future of photography. But that discussion will not happen here.

[BrianShaw]

Sal is the only one brave enough to speak out. I'm sure he takes solace in the thousands of people who wordlessly agree with him.

...

[Eric Biggerstaff]

Oh man, the FLAME WARS! Well, those were some truly crappy times on the good old LFPF! However, they were good for getting people to click on the threads to see what was going down, just like this thread.

That said, I don't miss them AT ALL!

Simple answer is, if you don't like the rules don't join the forum.

I think Richards work deserves to be seen and appreciated but this may not be the best vehicle for that purpose. I am sure there are other forums which would be open to it and have a greater audience then this small, specialized group of amateur, semi-professional and professionals who love LF photography. Had he posted something along the lines "My New Project - Need Input" then posted the images and ask for a discussion about the IMAGE it would still be open. The stories are great and important, but the title of the thread and the work / stories posted seem more of a way to publish than to get input. I like the stories and the portraits, but am just not sure how that body of work fits into the purpose of this particular forum. As I said earlier, I am sure there is a better forum out there where this body of work might be a good fit.

I don't think anyone is trying to demean Richard, or his work. In fact, I would guess everyone, including the mods, would say the work has a purpose and is moving in an interesting direction, one I hope he continues to feel strongly about and goes after. Stories of people left aside by society are always important and can have a profound impact on our understanding. These types of stories and this type of work is not new of course and has been around for as long as there have been photographers who want to make a change in the world we live in.

This thread has become one that is dissolving into a good old flame war. I hope Richard finds his footing and follows his passion but if I were him, I would ask that this thread be closed as nothing good will come from it and all that can be said has been said.

[lecarp]

We've thought about it, and are still thinking about it. I don't know where we will end up. Most likely we'll stand where we are. Conceivably somebody could say something that will change our minds; accusing us of bigotry isn't going to do it, though. Indeed, the overall tenor of the reaction tends to reaffirm our fears that certain kinds of topics bring out the worst in people and are way more trouble then they are worth to try to manage.

It is not bring out the worst in people when they stand up against whats been done to Richard or against comments from a moderator such as
Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Barker
As a side note, this position also precludes other, similarly-presented projects, such as portraits of members of the American Nazi Party, members of the KKK, or portraits of ISIS members showing their handywork. If we were to allow one topic, we'd be obliged to allow all.

When people stand up against bigotry it is bringing out the best in humanity not the worst!

[Oren Grad]

I ask yet again, since the question still hasn't been answered: why did the fact that the discussion went down a certain path result in the closing of the thread, rather than in the deletion of specific posts, as in other threads that touched on politicized topics?

The thread was on watch from the start; based on experience we figured a high likelihood that it would go south. When it did, we were faced with a delete-vs-close judgment call. My judgment was that the thread would be a source of recurrent trouble. That's a debatable call. But following up on the point I made to Bryan, if the topic is so inflammatory and so sensitive that a thread closure, well-judged or not, is taken as presumptive evidence of bigotry and elicits a torrent of nasty ad hominem attacks, we might indeed be well advised to steer clear of it.